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10-13-2003 CC MINMEETING OF THE ELK RIVER CITY COUNCIL HELD AT LIONS PARK CENTER MONDAY, OCTOBER 13, 2003 Members Present: Members Absent: Staff Present: Mayor Kdinzing, Councilmembers Dietz, Kuester, Tveite, and Motin. ~'~one. City Administrator Pat I~aers; Recreation Manager Michele Bergh; Director of Economic Development Catherine Mehelich; Street & Park Superintendent Phil Hals; Building & Environmental Administrator Stephen Rohlf; Finance Director Lori Johnson; Ice Arena Manager Rich Czech; Police Chief Jeff Beahen; and City Clerk Joan Schmidt. Call Meeting To Order Pursuant to due call and notice thereof, Mayor KJinzing called the meeting of the Elk River City Council to order at 6:30 p.m. Consider 10 / 13/2003 Agenda MOVED BY COUNCILMEMBER MOTIN AND SECONDED BY COUNCILMEMBER TVEITE TO APPROVE THE COUNCIL AGENDA AS PRESENTED. MOTION CARRIED 5-0. Consider Consent Agenda MOVED BY COUNCILMEMBER MOTIN AND SECONDED BY COUNCILEMBER TVEITE TO APPROVE THE FOLLOWING CONSENT AGENDA: 3.1. 3.2. 3.3. 3.4. 3.5. 3.6. SEPTEMBER 22, 2003 COUNCIL MINUTES CHECK REGISTER CONSIDERATION OF RESOLUTION #03-64 APPROVING PREMISE PERMIT RENEWAL FOR VFW CONSIDERATION OF RESOLUTION #03-65 APPOINTING DATA PRACTICES COMPLIANCE OFFICIAL CONSIDERATION OF PROCLAIMING OCTOBER 20 THROUGH OCTOBER 24 AS MN MANUFACTURING AND TECHNOLOGY WEEK CONSIDERATION OF A REQUEST FOR TRANSIENT MERCHANT LICENSE FROM ELLEN SNELL CONSIDERATION OF A REQUEST FOR A MASSAGE THERAPIST LICENSE FROM MEGAN SMITH. MOTION CARRIED 5-0. Open Mike No one appeared for Open Mike. City Council Minutes October 13, 2003 ............................. Page 2 5.1. 5.2 5.3. Center Point Minnegasco Grant for the Skatepark Arnie Hendrickson from Center Point Energy Minnegasco presented to the City a check for $1,500 to be used for the skatepark in Lions Park. This is grant money received by the City through the new pilot program for cities served by the company. Teen members active in planning for the skatepark accepted the check. Consideration of Libra~ Board Applicant Mayor Klinzing asked applicant Allison Olson why she was interested in serving on the Library Board. Ms. Olson replied that she has been a reader all her life, has great respect for those who serve at the library, enjoys books and being around them, she's an advocate for reading and feels it is important to step forward. MOVED BY COUNCILMEMBER MOTIN AND SECONDED BY COUNCILMEMBER TVEITE TO APPOINT ALLISON OLSON FOR A TERM EXPIRING DECEMBER 31, 2006. MOTION CARRIED 5-0. HRA Downtown Revitalization Project Update Director of Economic Development Catherine Mehelich gave an update to Council in regards to the Downtown Revitalization Project. She explained that the HRA has been considering staff's research to issues and questions with regard to MetroPlain's concept for the redevelopment of the Jackson Block and Bluff Block. Staff was directed to work with the project attorney and the developer and to bring back in the next 30 to 60 days a draft development agreement. Ms. Mehelich reported that the developer has requested that the City submit an application for grant funds to the Small Cities Development Program, which is administered by the MN Department of Employment & Economic Development. Typically this program has over 150 applications each year and approves about 30 of them. This grant application would not commit the City to final project approval. At the September meeting, the HRA recommended that the City Council consider authorizing staff to proceed in submitting a Small Cities Development Program (SCDP) application for the purpose of obtaining grant funds for commercial and residential rehabilitation, and new residential rental construction, in the Downtown Revitalization Project area. Under the proposed rehabilitation program, commercial properties could obtain a 5-year deferred loan at zero percent financing for up to 40 percent of the project cost for eligible health and safety building improvements. The City's Micro-Loan program could also be provided for up to $50,000 of the balance of the project at its regular policy rate. Participants would be required to maintain ownership of the property for 5 years. Residential rental property owners could request up to $15,000 per unit to make health and safety codes and energy efficiency improvements. Ms. Mehelich explained that a public hearing would need to be held and this had been tentatively scheduled for October 27 and two resolutions would need to be approved by Council after the hearing. City Council Minutes October 13, 2003 ............................. Councilmember Motion asked about the Micro-Loan commitment and if that is also proposed to be provided as a grant. Page 3 Ms. Mehelich stated no, that the Micro-Loan applicants would be considered against the same Micro-Loan policy that the City currently has in place. MOVED BY COUNCILMEMBER KUESTER AND SECONDED BY COUNCILMEMBER DIETZ TO SET OCTOBER 27, 2003 AS THE DATE OF THE PUBLIC HEARING TO CONSIDER A SMALL CITIES DEVELOPMENT PROGRAM APPLICATION. MOTION CARRIED 5-0. Mayor Klinzing wanted it noted for the record that the Council accepted signed petitions from downtown customers concerned about Jackson Square. This issue in particular was not to be considered this evening but Council will take these petitions under advisement. 5.4. Consideration of Hiring Recreation Department Part-time Office Employee Recreation Manager Michele Bergh stated that five candidates had been interviewed for the part-time office employee position and she was recommending the hiring ofJackie Reibel for the 20-hour per week recreation assistant/facilities and programming position (at pay grade 5, step 1 - $11.32/hour with pro-rated holiday, sick and vacation pay and PERA benefits). MOVED BY COUNCILMEMBER TVEITE AND SECONDED BY COUNCILMEMBER MOTIN TO APPROVE THE HIRING OF JACKIE REIBEL FOR THIS POSITION. MOTION CARRIED 5-0. Ms. Bergh also gave an update on the other position that had been offered. After consideration by the applicant, she did not accept. Staff contacted other applicants but didn't get any interest so staff will continue to work on this hiring. 5.5. Consideration of a Resolution Providing for the Sale of $1,795,000 G.O. Improvement Bond series 2003A and a Resolution Providing for the Sale of $2,020,000 G.O. Water Revenue and Refunding Bond Series 2003B Finance Director Lori Johnson explained to Council the need for the sale of bonds on November 10. The water revenue issue would be to fund construction of well #8 as well as to refund the 1994D and 1993B water bonds. The refunding is proposed to save on interest costs and to restructure the debt to better fit with the projected cash flow of the Water Fund. The general obligation bond would be issued to finance recent and upcoming infrastructure improvements including the following projects: Boston and Concord, 2003 Street Rehabilitation, 2002 Zane Street, and Cascade Industrial Park. The Cascade Industrial Park project has not been authorized as of yet. If this project does not proceed, the bond issue will be reduced. The City share of the street rehabilitation project that is being repaid with a tax levy and the remainder of the debt service on the bond will be funded with assessment revenue. MOVED BY COUNCIL MEMBER MOTIN AND SECONDED BY COUNCILMEMBER TVEITE TO APPROVE RESOLUTION #03-66 PROVIDING FOR THE SALE OF $2,020,000 GENERAL OBLIGATION WATER REVENUE BONDS SERIES 2003B. MOTION CARRIED 5-0. City Council Minutes October 13, 2003 ............................. Page 4 5.6 5.7 MOVED BY COUNCILMEMBER MOTIN AND SECONDED BY COUNCILMEMBER DEITZ TO APPROVE RESOLUTION #03-67 PROVIDING FOR THE SALE OF $1,785,000 G.O. IMPROVEMENT BONDS SERIES 2003A. MOTION CARRIED 5-0. Consideration of award of bids for City Hall security system Finance Director Lori Johnson stated that this is awarding the bid for the City Hall portion of the security system, which is including security cameras, and the integrating of all three systems together. MOVED BY COUNCILMEMBER TVEITE AND SECONDED BY COUNCILMEMBER KUESTER TO APPROVE A CONTRACT WITH PRO- TEC DESIGN IN THE AMOUNT OF $34,880 FOR THE CITY HALL SECURITY SYSTEM. MOTION CARRIED 5-0. Discussion of Ice Arena floor City Administrator Pat Klaers stated that if the arena staff is unsuccessful in getting ice in the Barn then staff is recommending that we move forward for replacement of the floor as soon as possible. Funding options for this project were reviewed at the August 25, 2003 Council meeting. Ice Arena Manager Rich Czech stated that so far we are unable to get a micron reading, which determines how strong the vacuum is on the floor. This will also move debris in the system and check for leaks. He is hoping by Wednesday or Thursday to have this system working. When staff can run the system, it will continue to run at a high temperature to filter out debris and moisture. As that is depleted, it will start to put ice down and move temperature of refrigerate down bringing the floor to a freezing point. That will tell if we are successful or not. He is looking at the date of October 20 to evaluate where we will be. If we are up and running, we should have ice by the 24th of October. Councilmember Dietz asked if can't get ice, what happens to the people that have that time reserved. Will you double up on the Olympic size sheet or are the people out of luck. Mr. Czech stated that we would have a lot of disappointed customers and that is a question for the Ice Arena Commissioners as to how they want it handled. As far as rescheduling ice for customers, we think we will be out of luck. He would like to accommodate the high school games as much as possible. Councilmember Dietz is concerned that people will be mad and will not come back permanently. He inquired as to whom has it scheduled i.e. Elk River Youth Hockey or Elk River people---can we accommodate. Mr. Czech answered that the Becker Big Lake High School seems to be the biggest losers, and after that Rogers and Elk River are about 50/50. Internally ice time has been doubled up already with some groups going to other sites. Currently they can go to Princeton. Councilmember Dietz asked how much will be lost in revenue if we have to shutdown. Mr. Czech replied about $15,000 for the time period to get the ice back in. City Council Minutes Page 5 October 13, 2003 ............................. 5.8 Councilmember Dietz asked about any reduction in expenses so that we wouldn't lose the full amount. Mr. Czech answered that we would save on electricity and that we would have less employees on hand. The ice schedule change is a juggling act for the employees too. Councilmember Dietz inquired if we will either shut down or go forward by October 20m. Mr. Czech answered that we won't have all bids on hand by then, could move boards on the 20th, Steven Engineering has bid for cutting up concrete, bid openings will be the 30m of October and we may need a Special Meeting of Council on the 3~l of November. Councilmember Motin asked if we get it running by October 24th if it will make it through the season. Mr. Czech stated most likely. As the system cools down the pressure is less and we may need to put in some refrigerate along the way. Mayor Klinzing stated that if we know by the 24th the results of the bids, on the 27awe could set the special meeting if necessary. Mr. Klaers stated that the Council is scheduled to receive a proposal next week for removal of concrete and at future meetings there will be updates. Consideration of 2003-04 Snowplowing Policy Street/Park Superintendent Phil Hals explained that plowing this year will consist of eight truck-plowing routes, one sidewalk route, a pathway route and two loaders plowing cul-de- sacs. The City has added 12 miles of streets last year and the same amount this year. Last year was not a good test because of lack of snow. He stated we are looking at more miles of streets to plow with the same equipment as 2001/2002. The changes in the policy reflect on those thoughts and staff will be reducing our contract cul-de-sac plower as a budget-cutting move. Staff is planning on, as the developments are plowed, to circle the cul-de-sac, open the driveways and then come back the following day and do a cleanup plowing. Another impact is that the loading and hauling of snow will be scheduled to the 3~l day in the downtown area. That will save money. The goal is to still plow in a 10-hour shift and then the second and third days to do a nine-hour shift. The third issue is the sidewalk plowing. We actually have enough sidewalks at this time where we could use a second sidewalk machine if we were to clear those the first 24 hours following a snowfall. Since we don't have that option, the sidewalk plowing will be prioritized into a day one, two, and three type of operation. Councilmember Dietz inquired how the change would impact the cul-de-sac kids going to school. Mr. Hals didn't see it as a problem, that normally the kids walk a block or two anyway and that the buses don't have pickups in a cul-de-sac too often. Councilmember Dietz asked if we use special equipment for cul-de-sacs or is it more a time consuming issue. City Council Minutes Page 6 October 13, 2003 ............................. Mr. Hals stated that he likes to plow with front-end loaders, that staff has 12 foot reversible plows on two of the loaders and they are exceptional for plowing cul-de-sacs because they are up in the air, visibility is good, and you can actually drop the equipment, making a pass over the cul-de-sac in a faster amount of time than using the trucks. Councilmember Dietz asked how many front-end loaders would be used on the second day. Mr. Hals stated that we will use four vehicles and will also run the trucks. Councilmember Dietz asked about staffing, who fills in while the workers are resting. Mr. Hals stated that in an unusually long storm, one of the mechanics and he will start out plowing on the onset of the storm and then the main crew comes on rested and ready and then 12 hours later will switch again. Staff tries not to exceed a 12-hour shift. Councilmember Dietz asked if there is any rhyme or reason as to where the routes start/stop. Do they start in the same place every time and end in the same place every time. Mr. Hals answered that we try to lay out each route so that staff is plowing the most people out in the shortest amount of time. They pretty much start and end with the same routes. Staff has talked about varying from time to time but there are pluses and minuses to it. Councilmember Kuester asked if staff keeps track of residential miles that are being plowed, and if we do comparisons from year to year. Also, what criteria can the Council use to know if we need another person. Mr. Hals stated that every snowstorm is different. He has a graph that was put together by the MN Street Association that shows how many miles of street can be plowed in a certain amount of time. Workers will radio each other when they are done with their route to inquire who needs help. Councilmember Kuester asked if there was any value to put in the newsletter the way the routes are. Mr. Hals stated that that was a good idea and may be done in the future. Mayor Klinzing asked how does staff coordinate with the county in regards to county roads. Mr. Hals stated that we don't really pass paths very often; always a handshake type of agreement, i.e. if Mississippi Road (CR 30) hasn't been plowed, we will plow our way out there. The entities will help each other out. Mayor Klinzing inquired about the county and City intersections. Do we unplug those as long as we are going through. Mr. Hals stated that quite often staff will get a call that the intersection is slippery and we will respond even if it is a county road and vice versa. Mayor Klinzing asked if people call the police department. What happens to calls to dispatch. Police Chief Beahen answered that the dispatcher will page the public works on-call staff for City or county calls. City Council Minutes October 13, 2003 ............................. Page 7 5.9 MOVED BY COUNCILMEMBER KUESTER AND SECONDED BY COUNCILMEMBER DIETZ TO ADOPT THE SNOW PLOWING POLICY FOR 2003-2004. MOTION CARRIED 5-0. Consideration of Refuse Service Charges Building and Environmental Administrator Stephen Rohlf stated that we have had a fund surplus due to a refund of a tax and also a grant from Sherbume County so for the last two years refuse service bills have been kept at a lower rate than the actual cost of the service to use up this surplus. Last November, Council approved an increase of $1.00 per stop for all can sizes and we anticipated raising the rates starting with July of this year. However, due to a misunderstanding this increase has not yet been added to the refuse service bills. The City needs to keep a fund balance of $80,000 (one month's accounts payable). The City's contract with its haulers expires in October of 2004 and by then our fund balance should be up and hopefully will offset any type of increase. Staff is recommending the following refuse service rate increases per month be implemented starting with November's service: 32 gallon bi-weekly $1.00; 32 gallon weekly $1.50; 60 gallon weekly $1.50; 90 gallon weekly $2.25; and 2-90 gallon weekly $3.00. Councilmember Motin inquired about the previous approval that was partly offset with a recycling rebate and, what happened to that. Mr. Rohlf explained that people would be getting a $15 rebate this year. However, he was not sure if it would be possible next year since it was paid for with landfill abatement funds. Councilmember Motin asked where are the request forms. Mr. Rohlf answered at City Hall and that it has been advertised and you have to put in for it. Councilmember Dietz inquired if Mr. Rohlf anticipated another five-year contract with the haulers. Mr. Rohlf stated that he was not sure at this time since he has had some issues with one hauler. MOVED BY COUNCILMEMBER DIETZ AND SECONDED BY COUNCILMEMBER TVEITE TO ADOPT THE REFUSE SERVICE RATE INCREASES AS PRESENTED BY STAFF AND STATED IN THE MEMO. MOTION CARRIED 5-0. 5.10 Update on Public Safety-City Hall Project City Administrator Pat I~aers stated that City staff had meet with representatives from Kraus Anderson, Tushie-Montgomery, and Serice Construction, Inc. to discuss issues with the public safety and the City Hall-Utilities construction projects. The main discussion item has been the Public Safety-Building roof and the leak and the issue revolves around the wall that is on top of the police station. All are hopeful that once the items mentioned in the Serice Construction, Inc. letter, which outlines the steps that will be taken to address the leak, have been completed that the problems will have been corrected. If not, the option will be to remove the wall next spring. Staff has discussed concerns regarding future unusual maintenance expenses and the perception that we may be getting damaged goods. City Council Minutes Page 8 October 13, 2003 ............................. Staff has been assured that this will be a quality product and there will not be any unusual unforeseen maintenance expenses and the warranty has been extended to 10 years. The other main discussion item is getting the Utility Building completed and ready for winter. The Utility Building has a one-year warranty period that started when the City staff moved in. Pat also explained that in regards to the City Hall reconstruction project, in 1993 some value engineering was completed to save money, however, some of these changes did not make it on the final drawing. Consequently the bids for this reconstruction project were made without all of the information on existing conditions being known. Additional ductwork and heating units are required and will be done by way of a change order with the cost to be approximately $31,000. Not too many additional expensive surprises are expected with this reconstruction project. There has been mold found on some of the walls due to past leaking that we have experienced but this is not an overwhelming issue. Councilmember Tveite inquired about the wall on the Public Safety building, it sounds like Serice Construction is taking full accountability for this problem and not trying to do any finger pointing on design. Finance Director Johnson stated our insurance company has opened a claim under our builder's risk policy in the event that the issue cannot be resolved. 5.11 Consideration of Building Inspector Recommendation City Administrator Pat Klaers stated that staff is here tonight to recommend that the City end its employment relationship with Housing/Building Inspector Terry Tousignant. Mr. Klaers stated that the City's Personnel/Human Resources legal Consultant, Dayle Nolan from Larkin Hoffman, was present to answer questions on this issue if needed. Mayor Klinzing asked for permission from the Council to allow people to come forward. She stated that this was not a public hearing but if there were people who wished to come forward at this time that they could. No one addressed the Council. MOVED BY COUNCILMEMBER MOTIN AND SECONDED BY COUCILMEMBER KRUESTER APPROVAL OF THE TERMINATION OF TERRY TOUSIGNANT'S EMPLOYMENT. MOTION CARRIED 5-0. 5.12 Consideration of Heritage Preservation Commission application Mayor Klinzing asked applicant Lance Lindberg why he was interested in serving on the commission. Mr. Lindberg stated that he has been interested in history since he was ten years old and has experienced a lot of history. He feels that preserving our history and heritage is important to our community and would like to be involved in that process. MOVED BY COUNCILMEMBER TVEITE AND SECONDED BY COUNCILMEMBER DIETZ TO ACCEPT LANCE LINDBERG'S APPLICATION FOR HERITAGE PRESERVATION COMMISSION FOR A TERM EXPIRING DECEMBER 31, 2006. MOTION CARRIED 5-0. City Council Minutes October 13, 2003 ............................. Page 9 6. Other Business There was no other business. 7. Staff Updates There were no staff updates. The Council recessed at 7:44 p.m. and reconvened at 7:48 p.m. for a joint meeting with the Heritage Preservation Commission. 8. Joint Meeting with the Heritage Preservation Commission Members of the Commission present were: Jeff Gongoll, Kurt Kragness, Cliff Lundberg, and Lance Lindberg. Absent were: Pat Dwyer, Cynthia Olson, and Bud Houlton. Also present was Professor Richard Rathaus from St. Cloud State University. Mayor Klinzing welcomed the commission members and Professor Rathaus and explained that this portion of the meeting was a joint meeting with the Heritage Preservation Commission. She then turned the meeting over to Building and Environmental Administrator Steve Rohlf. Archaeological Modeling and Literature Search Mr. Rohlf explained that we have a federal grant though the State Historic Preservation office and a contract for this work was awarded to St. Cloud State University with Professor Richard Rathaus of St. Cloud State present tonight. Professor Rathaus explained that he sees this as a four-step process. The end goal is to have this archaeological model so that you can look at a map and in future planning realize where the archaeological sites may be or also to let us know there is nothing there. First, we need to gather the basic information, where are the known archaeological sites in the City of Elk River, which officially on the books there are not a lot of. Step 2 is doing the actual model, where the computer GIS work is completed. Step 3 is testing the model. Step 4 is to present the model. This is a win-win solution for the preservation crowd and the development crowd. What doesn't work is when they come together head to head, sending projects away which costs everyone money. We are trying to head that off by giving you as much information as possible. It will be done in less than a year. Mr. Rohlf stated there are basic building funds. The long-term hope is to get a relationship with St. Cloud State University and get some kind of ongoing archaeological work in the dam area. Professor Rathaus stated that St. Cloud State University is interested in the Elk River project because it is a civic engagement of the type that they want students involved in, a textbook City Council Minutes Page 10 October 13, 2003 ............................. case in action, with distance only 45 minutes away, it is a long solid history project and the school constantly has students interested. Mr. Rohlf has had preliminary discussions with the DNR regarding the foundation of the original 1851 sawmill and it was felt that physically it should be easy. Commissioner Kragness stated that we have a gem with the old Houlton Farm area; it is so unusual to have undeveloped land sitting in the middle of our City that has so many ties to not only our local history but also to Minnesota history, the saw milling site, flour mill, the Red River Trail having gone through there from 1840 to 1860, and there's two Native American battle sites. He felt there should be some interesting archaeological finds. His personal vision would be to incorporate this site into a park system, a walkway system around the perimeter of the Elk and Mississippi Rivers and have interpretive signs of ongoing archaeology, incorporating some opportunities for citizens, students, and all interested parties. Professor Rathaus mention that one of the keys for the sustainability for the sites for activity was partnerships. Oral Interviews/Written History, Councilmember Kuester stated that 10th grade students that were in the honor's class conducted these interviews and it was a special project that they were assigned. One project was to take a name out of the yearbook and research them for a while and one was to research a local location. She hasn't heard the interviews but would guess the teacher had a lot more and would have saved the best. The goal is to use primary resources so it is a real asset to have these oral interviews. Commissioner Kragness stated that by doing oral interviews it is not just simply to record history but to make it easier for us and by interviewing these people it is to identify major themes in history, commercial development, residential development, etc. and then fill in and add the details. It has to be practical, useful, and adds richness to our lives and community. It's about connecting people. Councilmember Dietz asked as to how far out in the future would it take to have this written history. Mr. Rohlf stated that we have limited money to do it with and would need to hire someone to compile and he thought it would take two to three years. He hopes that it's something that reads well. Mayor I42inzing asked wouldn't it be interesting if someone did a critical history of Elk River. Commissioner Kragness stated whether it is popular and something on a coffee table with lots of photographs or critical history, we are analyzing the changes that have taken place and the growth is the most significant history that the City is going through right how. Mayor ICAinzing feels it's important as to what has lead to it; there are a lot of things that have been foundational and built upon as to what lead to it. That's unique to every community. She felt it comes more from interviewing people, the accuracy of that information, and to give their spin on what occurred at the time. City Council Minutes Page October 13, 2003 ............................. Commissioner Kragness stated that there is a study of interest as to how you document and interview people, what kind of questions, how to ferret out the changes that are being brought to the community and it would be fun to investigate that in the Elk River area. Downtown Revitalization Project Mr. Rohlf stated that the HPC has made a recommendation to the HRA on the historic significance of the buildings included in the study area for the Downtown Revitalization Project with the recommendation based on context study and local significance. The HPC has also provided comments and proposed language regarding the Downtown Area in the City's Comprehensive Plan. Mayor Klinzing stated that there are some very strong opinions and we need to listen to all of those and the HPC is in a unique position to advise Council. The City ordinance talks about the HPC purpose under Section 2-213 of the City Code. The HPC was established to review and make recommendations to the City Council on issues pertaining to the historical, archaeological, engineering, and cultural heritage of the City. The commission shall participate in the preservation and acquisition of the City's heritage and historical sites. But then when you look into the powers and duties, that word "participate" doesn't really follow through in the way that is being stated in the purpose. It also doesn't get to the question if participate goes beyond the actual point of recommendation. If your duty is to look at the issues that we are dealing with in the City of Elk River from a heritage perspective and then recommend to the City, is that your participation and is that where it ends unless the City Council comes back to you and says we understand your stance on this and this is an area where we would like to see your participation or possibly acquisition? She asked for feedback from the commissioners as to how they see their relationship. Commissioner Kragness stated that we have made recommendations and those are the only formal procedures that are followed and from his viewpoint there is nothing more we can do as the HPC. He wishes there was more they could do. He feels the downtown plans have changed and they haven't had the opportunity to review and recommend based on revisions of the revitalization project. Mayor Klinzing asked if the HPC has indicated that they want to do that? (No, they haven't.) She suggested that they could make an addendum to their recommendation and present that to Council. Mr. Rohlf feels that there is a misunderstanding on Council's part; the HPC has made recommendations. As individual members, he can't say how they feel. Mayor Klinzing asked how they see their role if there is another citizen group advocating for some things for downtown that were not being supported by City Council but which the HPC supports. What would you do? How do you see your role with that group? Commissioner Kragness stated he could answer for himself. He wants to make it clear that he does not advocate other than in a formal recommendation. To his knowledge the HPC hasn't made any other recommendations other than what is outlined here. Commissioner Gongoll stated that he sees it as a commission to serve the Council and we have an ordinance that gives them the ability to do what they do. In the scenario presented, he would suggest that if you decline and there's another group out there advocating he would think that we would discuss again but that is not to suggest that we would be the ones out there to voice to Council that we are right and they are wrong. We would not be adversarial. We may say it's not worth fighting and say to move on. City Council Minutes October 13, 2003 ............................. Page 12 Mayor I~inzing stated so you see a clear difference between advocacy groups and the commission. You see yourself as a commission who recommends to the City Council and once that recommendation has been given then the commission moves on. Commissioner Gongoll stated that you've asked us to do historic things; I can be an advocate regardless. If we have a report, we are going to advocate that. Councilmember Kuester stated that she felt that the recommendation that they make is a form of advocacy and when the things come to Council, the Council needs to balance that advocacy with things that need to be done, and that's how she sees the role as being different. So when the Historical Commission comes and makes recommendations, she sees that as an advocacy not necessarily making the decision but can make even two recommendations that counter, and say that one is preferred and then Council will make the final decision. Councilmember Tveite feels that the first three bullet points under Section 2-214, Powers and Duties, explain their duties. Further discussion on advocacy took place. Mayor I~inzing stated that it is true that there is a certain amount of creditability because they are on the commission. The HPC is not an advocacy group; it is to bring recommendations to the City Council. You have treated it that way very well, to bring recommendation to the Council and probably there wasn't the communication from the Council when the downtown plans changed and we should have asked for an addendum to your recommendation because things had changed. That point needs to be made that we should have had you come back with another recommendation or an addendum. There is also that question as to how does HPC members advocate outside of the HPC for issues that the City Council has already looked at and said we are not interested in that standpoint right now. How is that seen and how is that done.; She feels that it could be a problem in the future when the Council makes a decision and the group does not stand behind it. Commissioner Lundberg feels that she is wrong and that the issue is more pronounced in her mind than in the Council's mind. He stated that there are very few people that know about the HPC let alone that he is on the HPC. Councilmember Kuester stated that she is glad that it is being brought back as individuals and that you haven't brought it back as the HPC and as individuals that you need to be able to do that. Councilmember Kuester stated that it can be a problem because on one hand we want those people most passionately involved and most knowledgeable about local history to be on the HPC and yet those are the very people who would lead a stronger advocacy so if you felt it shouldn't be there, there should be an understanding that at that point you want people to resign. I don't know if this is what you are advocating for or not. Mr. Rohlf stated that a strong opposite view is healthy. Mayor I~inzing stated that there can be disagreement and should be. You are here to recommend things to us after you have a chance to look at it and I don't want a "yes" group, that's not why you are here. You're here to make a strong recommendation but after City Council Minutes Page 13 October 13, 2003 ............................. that's done and the City Council has a chance to meet than we take your recommendation under advisement seriously. Mr. Rohlf stated that the HPC has made their recommendations, but as individuals and also HPC members, they have their own opinions. Commissioner Kragness stated that they are new as a Commission and that there is a lot of procedural info that he doesn't understand. He would like to see it handled the same as for the Planning Commission; they make a recommendation but if the project changes it is referred back to the Planning Commission. This is the same procedural treatment that the HPC would like to get. It is his desire to feel comfortable and to have ample opportunities to furnish their recommendations. He also would like to see some Councilmembers attend HPC workshops. There's lots of ways that preservation has speared positive things in the city. Mayor Klinzing stated it should have the same kind of process as other commissions. Councilmember Tveite stated that it needs to be a personal decision and doesn't feel the need to put together a code of conduct for this group. Commissioner Gongoll stated he feels that would create too much of unnecessary conflict. Councilmember Motin agrees with Councilmember Tveite and that they need to use their own judgment. Commissioner Gongoll stated that we recommend action to you, you make a decision, and nine out of ten are in approval of the recommending body. He feels we have gnashing of teeth over nothing. We need to respect the decision and respect the process. Mayor Klinzing stated that we need to have a process in place. She does respect their recommendations and she hears what they are saying and does take their recommendation seriously. She knows that they have researched the issue, that they have the background to come to Council with the best recommendation that can be made at that time, and she wants them to know that they are taken seriously. Mayor Klinzing stated that the commission should come to the Council with recommendations that's current and if that changes, then yes the commission can come forward and if they want to make another recommendation them come before them again. If something bypasses them and they have concerns, the commission can still talk to Council about it. Historic Designation Commissioner Kragness stated that we do have the power to create local historic districts after going through a process and that enables some historic preservation tax credits for homeowners and business owners. It gives a lot of benefits as well so there are economic incentives once we do some designations. The biggest area of confusion is the understanding of what's significant, what has integrity in terms of a building. The consultant didn't find anything eligible for the National Register but does that mean they're not important buildings, not significant. No, they didn't have historic integrity because they have a lot of the facade on the downtown buildings covered up. As a consultant, they cannot make a recommendation because they cannot see it. Because it is not on the National Register doesn't mean that it doesn't have significance, it can have local significance. City Council Minutes October 13, 2003 ............................. Page 14 Councilmember Motin stated that just because a building is still standing and it's old doesn't mean we should still keep it, or that it has significance or visual ties to the past. The Commission agreed with this comment. Other Business Mr. Rohlf asked for permission to hire for a temporary position for a building inspector for two to three months. MOVED BY COUNCILMEMBER TVEITE AND SECONDED BY COUNCILMEMBER DIETZ THE APPROVAL FOR STAFF TO ADVERTISE FOR THE POSITION OF BUILDING INSPECTOR AND IN THE MEANTIME TO HIRE A TEMPORARY BUILDING INSPECTOR FOR THE PERIOD OF TWO TO THREE MONTHS. MOTION CARRIED 5-0. 9. Adjournment There being no further business, Mayor Klinzing adjourned the meeting of the Elk River City Council at 9:27 p.m. Joan Schmidt City Clerk