06-23-2016 ICE MIN Elk _
-=—_- Special Meeting of the Arena Commission
River Held at the Elk River City Hall
Thursday,June 23, 2016
Members Present: Chair Givens, Commissioners Ballenger, Cunningham,Westgaard,
Madsen.
Members Absent: Vice Chair Balabon, Commissioner Holmgren
Staff Present: Arena Manager Rich Czech
I. Call Meeting to Order
Pursuant to due call and notice thereof, the meeting of the Ice Arena Commission
was called to order at 6:11 p.m. by Chair Givens.
2. Update of the Multipurpose Facility
Arena Manager Rich Czech reviews the preliminary budget numbers presented by
the architect. If the City chose to not build a new facility,but instead make
improvements to the existing facilities (per the CIP) at Lions Park, the Senior Center
and the Arena,it would cost approximately$8-$12 Million. The $22.8 - $32 Million
111 renovation to current building figures would include a new ice plant,renovating the
barn,and building up Lions Park.
Commissioner Westgaard notes the $32 Million budget would also include major
renovations to the arena such as more meeting space, more programmable space,
dryland space, high school locker rooms. Lions Park would be renovated to include a
commercial kitchen and a banquet facility to seat 400. The Senior Center would have
additions by acquiring the house currently adjacent, expansion for programmable
space for pickle ball and additional parking.
Next Czech reviews the numbers for a new facility at Lion's Park or Lake Orono
which would have two sheets,at a cost of$30 - 33.5 Million. A new facility would
also include options for Phase 2 and Phase 3,which would be $6 million for a 3r`'
sheet and $5 million for an inflatable dome. The total for a new facility with all of
the options included would be $42.5 - $48 million. Czech notes the site cost figures
are not set in stone. Estimates for soil correction at Lions Park have ranged from
$1.5M- $7M. The Lake Orono site would require relocating the ballfields to the
YAC,at an estimated cost of$1.2 million,but we are trying to get a more final
number. Coon Rapids has recently done a pinwheel, so we have current data on
those costs. The other factor to consider,is the land at YAC is owned by Waste
Water, and Czech notes he is unsure if that space was used for additional ball fields if
it would need to be replaced or if it could be "gifted" some way?
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• Commissioner Westgaard believes it can't be gifted because of the regulations of the
enterprise fund. The sewer fund owns that property because of the sludge dumping
that is done across the road. The land purchase for YAC was an internal purchase of
parks and rec through the sewer fund. Where they want to put the displaced Dave
Anderson complex should the new building happen at Lake Orono,is on land
adjacent to YAC so there would need to be a similar type of transfer so the sewer
fund can't be used for anything other than improvements to our public services. A
"gift" to parks and rec for a ball field would be a non-qualifying expenditure.
Czech notes we are hoping to have our finals by Monday so we can review it on
Wednesday with the task force. At this point, some of the numbers we have gotten
have been inconclusive to say the least, they really don't qualify for what we need
with breaking down expenditures, costs, staffing,what it all would mean to us.When
he has the information he will pass it on to the Arena Commission.
Commissioner Cunningham notes before they give the final numbers,make sure
they are including figures for varsity locker rooms and someone needs to talk to the
to the district's business manager or the new Superintendent about structuring a
lease agreement that will assist in paying for these areas.
Commissioner Westgaard,notes we will want to talk about that at some point, and
asks Commissioner Cunningham for help about who the correct people would be to
include in that conversation.
• Cunningham notes everything is done a year or even two years in advance, so even if
we could get a square footage we could adjust the contract to offset some of the
costs for the locker rooms.
Czech responds this may have to happen when we get to the architect phase of the
project so we will have a solid number for the square footage.
Cunningham adds he should be able to give an estimated square footage.
Commissioner Westgaard agrees we should be able to get those numbers as well as
an estimated cost per square foot.
Commissioner Westgaard notes he has not been impressed with the consultant.
Czech agrees and notes that he has brought up his concerns.
Commissioner Westgaard notes the report looked at our current operating costs and
staffing needs and projected what our new operating costs and staffing needs would
be. When we examined the details,with 3 sheets of ice, they estimated costs to
operate and staff would more than double. While it would be the addition of another
sheet,it shouldn't mean a double in staff. When we look back at operating costs
from reports that were done in 2006 and 2011 with the improvements to the
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condenser and ice plant,we should actually be more efficient with 3 sheets and a
new plant than what we have now. So the Council has asked for revised numbers.
Arena Manager Czech agrees, the numbers didn't add up.
Commissioner Cunningham notes hopefully they are going off of standard or
potential bids for costs,as the school's project came in much lower than the initial
estimates.
Commissioner Westgaard notes in terms of the budget, our bonding capacity is
about$35 Million, so to do the complete project at$42 Million is more than the city
could bond, so they started looking at breaking down pieces of it. Even at$30-$33
brings us pretty close to our limit,but when we look at what we've got out there
bonded and what we have coming up,we aren't going to build another library any
time soon,or another public works building or police department or any of those
things that we would have to bond for. In fact the bond for the library comes off in
two years which would free up some more bonding capacity. The program
expenditures in the next 5-7 years are little to none. The only unknown is if the state
were to come to the City to redo 169 or highway 10, the city's contribution to that
piece could be a few million dollars,and we would have to bond for that.
The City still hasn't flushed the verbiage for the referendum,but it is easy to break
off the third sheet of ice in terms of an expendable/phased item, and the turfed
dome area was another area that could either be phased in as funding becomes
• available or it could be something that doesn't have to be attached to this facility.
Westgaard adds the City is probably looking at a referendum in the $30-35 million
range for the two sheet facility without the additional phases,and he believes the $30
million estimate is high. He feels a well put together plan should be $22 - $25 million
and if that's the case,and the City gets favorable pricing,it may be possible to roll
phase 2 or 3 into it if we don't exceed the total spend. That's where the wording on
the ballot becomes important.
Commissioner Cunningham inquires if the City Council has discussed what would
happen if they say no?
Commissioner Westgaard says no,the Council only saw the report for the first time
earlier this month. It will be reviewed again July 5 along with some of the
recommendations. With the current information, along with the process the City
went through with site selection; the consensus of the Council,when evaluated for
the merits of what the site contributes to the success of the project,Lions Park
makes the most sense. It has enough space, accessibility,traffic control,building
orientation, etc.There isn't any need to purchase land, however the problem with it
is the soil conditions, and the only info we had was a 1961 boring done by a local
land surveyor. So we needed to spend the money to get updated soil borings.
Commissioner Cunningham asks when the results will be back.
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Commissioner Westgaard says the preliminary information, estimated the cost to be
$1.5 Million to correct the soils at Lions Park. The architect bumped that figure to
$4.5 million. Now the architect has adjusted and reevaluated and two weeks ago it
went up to $7.6 million. With the figures changing so much,is it safe to accept the
$1.2 million estimate to replace the softball complex or the $30—33 Million figure
for a new facility?He adds it isn't fiscally responsible to present a figure to the voters
and ultimately be that far off.
Commissioner Madsen notes that Stillwater has two rinks and an inflatable dome,
and asks if that is new?
Commissioner Ballenger states one of the sheets and the dome aren't very old.
Commissioner Westgaard adds we should be leaning on other cities that have arenas
and domes and have done these things more recently to give us an idea on costs.
However the Public Works facility was the same way. What we budgeted for, and
what it ultimately came in at was much more favorable. If the school district is seeing
the same thing with their project,it is good,but there is no guarantee.
He adds, once the City has the final reports for the soil borings,we may be able to
have conversations with local business owners to see if the material that would be
dug up just needs to be taken away, or would it be usable for something? If that's the
case,what is that cost really going to look like.
Arena Manager Czech notes, that the City Engineer has calls into people regarding
that.
Commissioner Ballenger notes that the sports center was built on peat.
Commissioner Westgaard says the City has talked to the boys and girl's club and Elk
River Machine that are located on the same parcel of land. Target in Otsego sits on
72"inches of soil correction, so there is some local stuff going on with peat
contractors involved. The contractor is concerned with this location because of it's
large footprint and the ice sheets that cannot have movement.
Arena Manager Czech reviews the drafts and notes about the soil boring. There were
seven drill sites,with some areas being better than others in terms of building- the
final report should be received by next Wednesday.
Commissioner Westgaard asks how it works if the top layers are ok,but farther
down if it is clay or peat do they take the top off,remove the "bad layers" and then
put the good stuff back on top?
Czech notes from his understanding in talking with the City Engineer,anywhere it is
noted there is organic clay or peat,is where it would need to be changed out. In
general,he estimates it to be an average of 10.5' of material. He also noted when
doing borings,you are just getting a picture of the area where the borings are done.
• Ten feet either way could be a totally different story.
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Commissioner Madsen inquires about what the final results will include that isn't
already on this report?
Arena Manager Czech responds what we have is just a draft so some of the
information could change. Getting the final report is taking longer than we expected,
which is putting us in a time crunch.
Commissioner Westgaard adds we need to let the County know by August 6th if
there is going to be a question on the ballot. We have time to develop the language
after that,but the City needs to make decisions as a Council as to whether or not
they want to pursue a referendum for the fall election and it is hard to do that
without the final information.
Commissioner Ballenger notes some of the boring areas aren't as bad as others.
Commissioner Westgaard adds he isn't sure if some of the ground would be
salvageable for reuse either. When we look at the overall footprint including 3 ice
sheets and parking and the banquet facility, do we need to do perfect soil corrections
in parking lot areas,or can the soils in those areas be on the lower end and just have
the optimal ground for the building itself.
Commissioner Madsen asks if there have been any issues with the current Lions Park
• building.
Commissioner Westgaard notes the parking lot has been fine, but the building itself
has issues having moved quite a bit.
Arena Manager Czech notes he has never seen any documentation about the current
Lions Park Building and if there was any soil correction done at that site. He believes
if this site is chosen the building would sit between boring sites 2-5 and maybe a bit
on to 6,which would take part of the current sledding hill.
Commissioner Cunningham asks if we know what is under the hill.
Commissioner Westgaard suspects it is concrete rubble from Highway 10.
Arena Manager Czech notes that if Justin (City Engineer) gets the information he
needs, that we should have a report by Wednesday.
Commissioner Westgaard notes he really feels the Lions Park location is best,but it
comes with some added expense.
Czech adds the timeline moving forward the next meeting would be
• June 29th, hopefully finalizing the scope of the numbers from the consultant
as well as reviewing the engineer's final report from the borings.
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• Wednesday(June 29) the Parks and Recreation Commission has their
meeting and they are going to review their Master Plan and start prioritizing
what they would like to see included in the referendum. It sounds like about
$5 million in park improvements,whether that would be in trails or
acquisition of land at one point they wanted to add bathrooms to some of
the trails.
• On Tuesday (June 28) will be the regular City Council meeting.
• July13`h is another Parks and Rec Commission meeting where they can
finalize their recommendations.
• July 18 the final recommendations need to be to the Council.
• August 1s`there will be a regular council meeting to work on the verbiage for
the referendum.
• August 10 will be another Park and Rec Commission meeting.
• August 15th a council meeting
• August 26 the final date to get the verbiage into the county for the
referendum.
• November 8 voting day.
Commissioner Cunningham asks if it has to go on the ballot, or if that is just the
direction the City is taking.
Commissioner Westgaard responds it doesn't have to, as we could theoretically levy
• for it,but it's not a smart move. The rationale is to gauge how much the community
wants a new facility. A $35 Million referendum would increase a $100,000
household's taxes $80/year for the next 15 years (based on today's dollars),but all of
that fluctuates. It costs $12 Million/year to run the city. $9.5 Million of that goes to
Police, Fire and The Street Department. The rest is for the library, parks, the Arena,
etc.
Westgaard adds if the referendum passes, the timeline would be to begin plan
development in the winter months hopefully to start construction in the spring.
Arena patrons could use the new facility,in theory beginning in fall of 2018. If
it is built at Lions Park,with the soil correction, there will be a surcharge period.
We want a new building to last 50 years so we want to make sure we are doing it
right, even if that means waiting 6 months for the ground to be ready.
Arena Manager Czech adds if it is built on the Lake Orono site,it will displace the
ballfields that will need to be moved to the YAC. The Mayor wanted to be sure that
it could be done in such a time frame that there is no down time.
Commissioner Cunningham says it takes about a year for a ballfield to be ready to be
played on.
Commissioner Westgaard asks about the "option 3" renovation drawings from 292
group drawn up in 2011 when Arena renovations were being discussed that took out
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4111 the barn and spread the rinks apart to increase locker room and concession and
grandstand area. Was that a$15 Million estimate?
Arena Manager Czech said he would have to look back at the drawings to see. He
adds that some of the plans would have to change now that the school has added on
towards the Arena.
Chair DeAnn Givens inquires if that plan included a third sheet?
Arena Manager Czech responds that it didn't. The only way to get a third sheet in the
current location would be to remove the tennis courts and softball fields.
Commissioner Ballenger notes it included a larger lobby,grandstand,locker rooms
down the center and an upstairs area.
Commissioner Westgaard inquires if nothing proceeds with the multipurpose facility,
what would the Arena Commission's recommendations be moving forward?Do we
go back to 2011's study and possibly modify it in relation to the school's expansion?
When they were drawn up,there were three options ranging from$5 million to a
$12-$15 million dollar project.
Commissioner Cunningham notes that there are more projects coming up from the
school as well since many of the schools fields and courts have outlived their
411 expected life by several years.
Chair Givens inquires about a drop dead date with regards to a new ice plant?
Arena Manager Czech says not specifically,we are just hoping that nothing goes
down. A facility can continue using their R22 ice plants as long as they can find parts,
etc.which will only get more expensive as time goes on since parts (and refrigerant)
will be obsolete in the future.
Czech also notes that the next Arena Commission meeting will be August 16.
Commissioner Westgaard notes that is the day after the City Council meeting where
they will make a decision about the referendum election. He inquires if the Arena
Commission should have a backup plan if the referendum doesn't pass regarding the
long term plans for the arena.
Arena Manager Czech suggests adding a special meeting in November after the
election.
Commissioner Westgaard asks Czech to find the old plans from 2011,and possibly
scan them and put them in the drop box so that we can re-familiarize ourselves with
them in the event the referendum doesn't pass.
IIIChair DeAnn Givens adjourns the meeting at 7:12 p.m.
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'n tes prepar-d by Laura Estby
DeAnn Givens, Chair
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Tina Allard, City Clerk
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