06-12-2001 PC MIN - SPECIAL
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SPECIAL MEETING OF THE ELK RIVER PLANNING COMMISSION
HELD AT ELK RIVER CITY HALL
TUESDAY, JUNE 12, 200 I
Members Present:
Chair Pederson, Commissioners Baker, Franz, Mesich, Ropp and Schuster
Members Absent:
None
Staff Present:
Michele McPherson, Director of Planning; Scott Harlicker, Senior Planner;
Chris Leeseberg, Park Planner/Planner; Director of Economic
Development Catherine Mehelich; Assistant Director of Economic
Development Marc Nevinski; Debbie Huebner, Recording Secretary
1. Call Meeting To Order
Pursuant to due call and notice thereof, the meeting of the Elk River Planning Commission
was called to order at 6:30 p.m. by Chair Pederson.
2.
Consider 6/12/01 Planning Commission Agenda
COMMISSIONER BAKER MOVED TO APPROVE THE JUNE 12, 2001
PLANNING COMMISSION AGENDA. COMMISSIONER FRANZ
SECONDED THE MOTION. THE MOTION CARRIED 6-0.
4.
Downtown Prioritization of Projects
Director of Economic Development Cathy Mehelich explained that at the last meeting, list
of proposed projects was formulated and that the list was sent to various groups for
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pnOntlZatlOn.
Frank Gallati, River's Edge, stated that the majority of those people he has spoken with
agree with what the consultants had to say about downtown. He felt that communities are
looking to create a pedestrian district when they are creating downtowns.
Councilmember Paul Motin stated that he did not agree with that concept of creating a
shopping district in downtown Elk River, since it was becoming more service-oriented. He
stated that if the downtown was not located in its current location, all of the retail would be
focused on 169. He felt that there are too many obstacles downtown with the river, the
railroad tracks, and a major highway running through it to be commercially viable.
Councilmember Motin stated that if the City is going to take advantage of the river, there
can't be buildings all along it downtown.
Don Heinzman stated that he felt that the City should enhance what we already have.
Ms. Mehelich reviewed some of the ideas presented in the study, regarding retail, office and
housing. She stated that property owners are asking what they can do with their property
and that the City needs to decide if they want residential or office/retail or a combination of
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Planning Commission Minutes
June 12,2001
Page 2
both. She stated that in tabulating the prioritization lists, they hope to find some sort of
consensus as to what direction to move in.
Commissioner Schuster stated he did not see a solution to the traffic problems downtown.
He stated that he finds it difficult, as a pedestrian, to cross the highway and railroad tracks to
get downtown, and that it is also difficult to drive there and park.
A business owner in the audience stated that the idea of a parking ramp in the downtown
has been suggested many times in the past.
Daryl Thompson stated he did not feel a parking ramp will help unless they create a draw for
people to come downtown.
A member present stated that there is a need for a "fine dining" restaurant and a coffee shop
downtown.
Commissioner Baker felt that parking was not the first issue of importance. Commissioner
Mesich disagreed.
A discussion followed regarding downtown redevelopment projects in Hopkins and White
Bear Lake, and the impacts of tearing down a large portion of downtown to rebuild. The
group also discussed what types of uses would be appropriate if a portion of downtown
were rebuilt. It was the consensus to recommend that a Historic Context Study be
completed as discussed at the previous meeting. Discussion was also given to having a
farmer's market or flea market downtown, as well as having regular concerts.
Commissioner Schuster did not support tearing down buildings and felt that the backs of the
buildings need to be opened up to the river and the fronts re-faced.
A member present felt that a coffee shop or some type of restaurant with live entertainment
would draw people downtown.
Paul Hatlestad, owner of the Haberdashery felt that specialty retail such as his is also a draw,
where he sells items that cannot be found anywhere else.
Ms. Mehelich stated that the results of the tabulation for prioritization of downtown projects
would be sent to those who participated. She stated that from the discussion, many people
place a high priority on some type of generator to bring people to the downtown, and
utilization of the river as an asset to downtown is also very important.
Ms. Lee Cairns stated that she helped renovate three buildings downtown and she felt that
these buildings should be preserved as viable assets to the downtown (i.e. former Star News
building, the Haberdashery).
3.
Request by Gold Nugget Development for Preliminary Plat (Kliever Lake Fields). Public
Hearing - Case No. P 01-08
Staff report presented by Scott Harlicker. This plat was reviewed by the Commission at
their May 22,2001 meeting. He stated that the plat now consists of 98 lots, the park has
been re-aligned, and all lots except one meet the dimensional requirements. This lot can be
adjusted so that it is in compliance with the 12,000 square foot minimum. Mr. Harlicker
Planning Commission Minutes
June 12, 2001
Page 3
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reviewed the layout of the plat. Sherburne County has now agreed to allow the pond on
their easement to be expanded for storm water drainage, as requested by Gold Nugget.
Horst Graser, representing Gold Nugget Development, explained that there was an
error in the original plat application which stated the number oflots as 104. He stated that
there were actually 99 lots shown on the original plat. He stated that the Sherburne County
Attorney and City Attorney have come to an agreement to allow them to expand the
County's pond, instead of having two different ponds. Mr. Graser drew in the location of
the ponding expansion on the plat. Mr. Graser reviewed the revised plat, and eXplained
where the pond would have been placed, if an agreement with Sherburne County had not
been reached. The outlet would come down the street via the storm sewer system and
discharge into Kliever Lake. He requested that as a condition of approval, the revised plat
be accepted if, for some reason, the County decides not to allow expansion of the pond, as
shown in the original plat. Mr. Horst requested that if the revised plat was necessary, he be
allowed to add one additional lot by shifting the road over and extending the cul-de-sac
slightly.
Commissioner Ropp asked where sidewalks would be located. Mr. Harlicker stated that
sidewalks are proposed on the south side of Street E and on Street G. Chair Pederson stated
that he suggested previously that sidewalks be added on Street A and Street B. The
Commissioners expressed their support for adding sidewalks on these streets.
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Commissioner Mesich asked what would happen if the rezoning for Outlot C was denied.
Mr. Horst stated that Outlot C would then be developed with single family homes. He
explained that because of the soil conditions, they will mine material in the northeast corner
of the site which will be used to raise some of the elevations in plat. The pond which will be
created from the mining will store storm water, thereby increasing the on-site storage
capacity. He noted that the townhomes are proposed to be built around this pond area.
Raising the elevations for the single family site will allow some variety in housing styles
including walk-outs, split entries, and split entry walk-outs. H the townhome rezoning is not
allowed, the grading of the site will change.
Commissioner Mesich asked if a grading plan was available. Mr. Graser stated that a grading
plan has been submitted to the city. Commissioner Mesich asked if hills will be built for
individual lots. Mr. Graser stated that the elevations of general areas in the site will be raised
to get above the sub-surface water elevation. He stated that the grading will be gradual in
order to meet the city's grade requirements for streets and drainage. Mr. Graser explained
the areas on the plat for split entry walk-outs, full basement walk-outs, and flat lots.
Chair Pederson asked if the elevations needed to raised in order to build basements. Mr.
Graser stated that without raising the elevations, the plat would consist of 99 split entry
houses and he did not feel this was a sound marketing practice.
Chair Pederson asked if the park was in a wetland. Mr. Graser stated that there is a very
small wetland in the southwest portion of the plat that has been delineated. Ms. McPherson
noted that the wetland is only .03 acres. Chair Pederson asked if Mr. Graser has considered
providing amenities for the park. Mr. Graser stated that he has not. Chair Pederson stated
that he did not support a longer cul-de-sac. He questioned the setbacks for the plat. Ms.
McPherson stated that the setbacks are 30 feet - front, 10 and 5 feet - side and 30 feet - rear.
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Commissioner Franz questioned the zoning of the property. Ms. McPherson stated that it is
zoned R1e.
Planning Commission Minutes
June 12,2001
Page 4
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Commissioner Baker asked if the City Engineer had concerns regarding the plat. Ms.
McPherson referred to the City Engineer's memo which indicates he has had discussions
with the Assistant County Attorney, along with Mr. Graser, regarding the County's pond.
The Assistant County Attorney has asked that the proposed expansion of the pond be
verified with the County Ditch Inspector for his approval.
Commissioner Mesich asked if berming would be feasible to screen the adjacent county
road. Ms. McPherson stated that the applicant plans to install a combination of trees and six
foot high privacy fences along County Road 12. Ms. McPherson stated that berming would
be difficult, since the county road is a rural section in this area. This means there will be a
ditch, rather than storm sewer to convey storm water. Mr. Graser stated that there will be
catch basins along the ditch which will drain into the storm water drainage system and run
down to their easement pond; therefore, it would not be possible to do any berming along
the county road.
Commission Mesich asked if a right turn lane would be required. Mr. Graser stated that the
county will require it. Ms. McPherson stated that the county is requiring a right turn lane
and a bypass lane.
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Chair Pederson asked what the sizes of Lots 6, 7, and 8 would be, without the pond. Mr.
Graser explained where the pond would be located and how a NURP pond functions. He
did not know what the size would be without the pond area. Chair Pederson suggested that
one of the lots be taken out to increase the dry, useable area of the lots. Mr. Graser noted
that in 2-3 years, natural vegetation establishes itself around the pond and that there will be a
natural overflow in addition to the pipe system. Mr. Graser stated that he hopes to expand
on the county's contract for the drainage pond so that the additional ponding area can be
done at this time to save costs, rather than coming back and having the work done at a later
date.
Commissioner Baker asked if Street G was designed to line up with a future street to the
south. Ms. McPherson stated that the Commission will be reviewing the preliminary plat of
Kliever Lake Hills in July and they will be able to see how the road will be extended. She
explained that Elk River Municipal Utilities will be purchasing one acre of that 40 acre plat
for the location of a water tower. She noted that the plat will be single family residential.
Commissioner Mesich stated that there was one additional lot that was less than 12,000
square feet. Mr. Graser stated that this was an oversight and will be corrected.
Chair Pederson expressed concern for the pond in the back of Lots 8 and 11. He felt this
pond will be wet most of the time and substantially reduces the size of the lots. He asked if
the mailboxes will be clustered. Ms. McPherson stated that the condition was omitted from
the last discussion and will be added, as well as a condition to provide snow storage
easements in the cul-de-sacs. She stated that Condition #4 could be amended to include
sidewalks on Streets A, B and G.
Commissioner Mesich asked if Chair Pederson was suggesting that Lots 8 and 11 be
increased above the 12,000 square foot requirement, due to the ponding. Chair Pederson
stated he would support that suggestion.
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Planning Commission Minutes
June 12,2001
Page 5
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Commissioner Baker asked the Commissioners to consider removing the condition for
clustering of the mailboxes because of the inconvenience and maintenance issues. He stated
that the storm water pond should be considered part of the 12,000 square foot lot size.
Commissioner Schuster stated that he has an easement in his backyard which has water in it
and does not feel it is a problem. He stated that as long as the buyer is aware of the fact
when he purchases the lot, there should not be an issue.
Commissioner Baker asked for clarification on the additional lot to be added if the County
agreed to allow sharing of the ponding easement. Mr. Graser stated that there would be 99
lots with either plan.
Commissioner Mesich expressed his concern that the City Council slated this parcel for
development with urban services in 2007. Ms. McPherson explained that the City Council
approved a land use amendment in 2000 to allow city sewer and water to be extended to this
area in 2001 and the property was immediately assessed.
Commissioner Mesich asked why the drawings were not presented to them until tonight.
Ms. McPherson stated that she received them yesterday.
Chair Pederson felt there are still some unknowns regarding the plat.
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Commissioner Ropp stated he was not sure of allowing lot sizes of 12,000 square feet on the
lots with the ponds. Mr. Graser eXplained that there would be 30-40 feet from the back of
the homes to the pond. Mr. Harlicker stated that 20 feet of useable area is typical from the
back of the house to any type of easement. Ms. McPherson explained that the city's policy is
that easements are to be part of lots rather than outlots. Outlots tend to go tax forfeit,
which results in a loss of tax revenue and a city maintenance responsibility. She stated that if
the Commission is concerned about the size of the lot, they could take Chair Pederson's
suggestion to reduce the size of the plat by one or two lots in order to accommodate larger
lots sizes for the lots in the area of concern. She noted that part of the reason the drawings
were submitted late was because staff and the developer had a difficult time getting a
response from the County Attorney.
Chair Pederson asked if there is still an outstanding issue with the County. Ms. McPherson
stated that the only request the County Attorney had was that the developer and staff speak
to the County Ditch Inspector. Mr. Graser noted that the ditch inspector is on vacation.
Commissioner Mesich stated that he was uncomfortable with the overall density of the plat,
if Outlot C will is to be platted as townhomes.
Commissioner Franz asked if a traffic study has been done to look at Street G and was
concerned that the City would have another" Auburn Street" problem, due to the density of
the development proposed for this area. McPherson stated that there could be a potential
traffic issue on a temporary basis. She explained that when the 75 acres to the south of
Kliever Lake Fields is developed, this property is adjacent to 175th Avenue which will allow a
long term north-south connection from County Road 12 to 175th, as well as providing
another connection to the east to Fillmore Street. This "horse shoe" configuration will
provide road connections to go north to County Road, south to 175th, east to Fillmore
Street, or west to Twin Lakes Boulevard.
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Planning Commission Minutes
June 12, 2001
Page 6
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Mr. Graser explained that the depth of the lots adjacent to the pond will be approximately
130'-140'. He noted that there will be drain tile in the back of every home. He explained
how the pond is designed to slope. He stated that the wetland will consist of 30'-40' of the
back of the lots.
COMMISSIONER BAKER MOVED TO TABLE THE REQUEST BY GOLD
NUGGET DEVELOPMENT TO THE JUNE 26, 2001 PLANNING
COMMISSION MEETING, BECAUSE OF UNRESOLVED ISSUES WITH
LAYOUT OF THE LOTS AND SIZE OF THE PONDING. COMMISSIONER
MESICH SECONDED THE MOTION.
Mr. Getz asked if there would be fire hydrants located in the plat. Ms. McPherson stated
that they would be required.
THE MOTION CARRIED 6-0.
Mr. Graser asked what kind of information the Commission wanted.
Chair Pederson stated that the ponding issue needs to be clarified, and lot sizes need to be
corrected. Mr. Graser stated that correcting the lot sizes of the two lots is a very minor issue
and that the County has agreed to the expansion of the pond. Chair Pederson stated that he
felt if Outlot C is to become townhomes, the area will become very dense. Mr. Graser
stated that Outlot C is not up for discussion at this time because of the townhome
moratorium.
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Commissioner Franz felt that speed was driving approval of this plat rather than
thoroughness and accuracy. He felt that Rle zoning suggests taking into account
environmental factors and that he has some concerns in that area. Mr. Graser stated that the
property is a cornfield and there are no environmental issues and is as flat as a table. There
are only 8 trees on the entire site and they will be preserved. Commissioner Franz stated he
did not understand why it was zoned Rle. Mr. Graser stated that he did not understand the
zoning either, since every bit of the property is a cornfield with the except of one small hill.
Ms. McPherson stated that the rezoning may have been a result of a "blanket" rezoning
when the Urban Service District was established and expanded to the east. Staff, at that
time, was aware there was hills and trees in the general area, even though this area is not.
Later, the intent of the Rle was changed through an ordinance amendment. She questioned
whether the 20,000 square foot lot requirement would have been appropriate at any time.
5. Business Park Design Standards
Michele McPherson explained that two versions of an amendment to the business park
building standards were included in the Commissioners' packets, one prepared by
Brookstone and one revised by City staff. Both versions were sent to business park and
industrial land developers, and only one set of comments had been received. Ms.
McPherson explained that staff's revision is structured to have a list of acceptable building
materials and finishes and also a set of performance standards (i.e., combination of materials,
punched openings, breaking up long lengths of fas;ade by changing the depth of the building,
utilizing multiple design techniques, etc.) The Commission is asked to review the proposed
ordinance amendments to provide direction to staff and developers for the final draft.
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Planning Commission Minutes
June 12, 2001
Page 7
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Chris Leeseberg, Planner, reviewed an exhibit of two buildings to illustrate the two proposed
ordinance amendments. Mr. Leeseberg asked the Commission to clarify whether the issue is
material or form.
Commissioner Mesich felt the buildings shown in the drawing looked like industrial
buildings, with no doors or windows. Mr. Leeseberg stated that the buildings would have
doors and windows to meet code requirements and that this drawing was intended to show
design only. Ms. McPherson noted that design and placement of doors and windows is
driven by the use of the building, and that the issue of uses needs to be separated from the
issue of building materials. She stated that the Commission either needs to change the uses
allowed in the Business Park or change the zoning district to Light Industrial and allow
concrete tip-up panels.
Commissioner Baker stated that he find changes in texture and fas;ades appealing. He noted
that the more stringent building standards being proposed may not be economically feasible
for some of the uses which are allowed in the Business Park District.
Mr. Leeseberg explained that the texture of a building may appear very different depending
on whether you are viewing the building while driving by, or whether your are walking on a
sidewalk up close to it. Chair Mesich stated he feels that when people drive by an attractive
business park, they will want to live in the City. Mr. Leeseberg explained that from a
distance, it is nearly impossible to tell what kind of building material is used. He stated that
texture and form may have nothing to do with materials when viewed from a distance.
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Commissioner Franz felt that Item A of the staff version of the ordinance, regarding the
intent to encourage high standards of architectural design, would be difficult to determine.
Commissioner Schuster stated that there is also material issue, since some types of materials
may fade or deteriorate.
Chair Pederson stated that the Planning Commission's concern is that the entire business
park would become nothing but concrete tip-up panel buildings, with no character or
architectural design. The Commission would hope to have buildings that can change from
one use to another and still look appropriate in a business park. He felt the Commission's
greatest struggle is to define what a "good looking" quality tip panel looks like. Chair
Pederson suggested only allowing concrete tip-up panels as a conditional use.
Commissioner Mesich suggested that plain block buildings or scored block buildings not be
allowed.
Jeff Gongoll stated that the intent of the business park zoning was to create something
above and beyond the light industrial zoning standards.
Discussion followed regarding the design standards proposed by staff and the changes
recommended by Mr. Martens of Brookstone regarding percentage of materials, which sides
of the building various percentages of materials would be required, loading docks and doors,
screening, and whether or not to require Planning Commission review.
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Staff will propose revisions to the ordinance draft based on the discussions from this
meeting, and the changes will be presented to the Commission at a future meeting.
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Planning Commission Minutes
June 12, 2001
Page 8
6.
Adjournment
There being no further business, COMMISSIONER BAKER MOVED TO ADJOURN
THE MEETING. COMMISSIONER MESICH SECONDED THE MOTION.
THE MOTION CARRIED 6-0.
The meeting of the Elk River Planning Commission adjourned at 10:08 p.m.
Respectfully submitted,
Ve,gttd ~LLtf~
Debbie Huebner
Recording Secretary