03-24-1992 PC MIN
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MINUTES OF THE ELK RIVER PLANNING COMMISSION
HELD AT THE ELK RIVER PUBLIC LIBRARY
MARCH 24, 1992
Members Present:
Chairman Nadeau, Commissioners spotts, Eberley, and
Minton
Members Absent:
commissioners Johnson, VanValkenburg & Tveite
Staff Present:
Stephen Rohlf, Building & Zoning Administrator; Janelle
Szklarski, zoning Assistant; Terry Maurer, City Engineer
1. Pursuant to due call and notice thereof; the meeting of the Elk River
Planning Commission was called to order at 7:00 p.m.
2. Consider 3/24/92 Planning Commission Agenda
Item 13.1 - Topics of Discussion for the Fall Planning Commission
Conference
Item 13.2 - Elk River Planning Commission 1992 Goals
COMMISSIONER SPOTTS
AGENDA AS AMENDED.
MOTION CARRIED 4-0.
MOVED TO APPROVE THE 3/24/92 PLANNING COMMISSION
COMMISSIONER MINTON SECONDED THE MOTION. THE
3.
Consider 2/25/92 Planning Commission Minutes
COMMISSIONER MINTON MOVED TO APPROVE THE 2/25/92 PLANNING COMMISSION
MINUTES. COMMISSIONER EBERLEY SECONDED THE MOTION. THE MOTION CARRIED
4-0.
4. Planning Commission Representative to Attend the 4/20/92 City Council
Meeting
It was indicated that Commissioner Minton would attend the 4/20/92 City
Council Meeting.
5. Consider CUP Amendment for Billiards Hall (Hours of Operation) by
Player's Club Billiard/P.H.
Janelle szklarski, Zoning Assistant, stated that the applicant is
requesting that their conditional use permit be amended to expand the
hours of operation until 4:00 a.m. on Saturday and Sunday mornings.
The main reason they are requesting an expansion of their hours is
because they are losing some of their customers to surrounding
communities that have billiards facilities open past 1:00 a.m. Ms.
Szklarski explained that the Cities of Monticello, Coon Rapids and East
Bethel all have billiard halls open past 1:00 a.m. The City of Anoka,
does restrict their hours of operation to 1:00 a.m. Staff is not
recommending approval of the proposed conditional use permit amendment
because they feel it would be detrimental to surrounding properties to
have the late hours of operation. The Elk River Police Department is
also recommending denial because of the past problems that have
occurred in and around the billiards hall.
Planning Commission Mintues
March 24, 1992
Page 2
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Clark Wilson stated that he was very upset by the City's memo as there
was no proof that any of these violations ever happened. He further
stated that he could not continue to operate his business financially
if the hours of operation were not extended. He explained that the
billiards hall in Anoka had to close their business because the City
would not allow them to expand their hours to stay consistent with the
surrounding communities. Mr. Wilson further addressed staff's concerns
regarding the hours of operation, alcohol related offenses, vandalism
complaints, and excessive noise. Mr. Wilson felt that his operation
did not affect the nursing home or other residents in the area. He
stated that one of the major highways (169) runs right past the nursing
home, which he feels is much nosier than his business. He stated there
could not be a lot of noise from his clients when they were inside
playing pool. He went on to explain that there are many people who
work the midnight shift that need some place to go. At this time, Mr.
Wilson read an article from the Elk River star News regarding a
14-year-old charged by police for drinking at 2:30 p.m., which he
passed on to the Commissioners. Mr. Wilson stated that teenage
drinking is a major problem nation wide. He stated he was not
responsible for kids being arrested for alcohol related offenses. He
stated that all the problems in the City of Elk River do not come from
the billiards hall. He felt that if the billiards hall is not allowed
to continue, the Elk River Mall will be overrun by these same kids who
have no where else to go. He felt that the billiards hall does the
City a great service by giving these kids some place to go (both the
younger and older crowds).
Commissioner spotts read a letter submitted by Thomas D. Zerwas, Police
Chief which states, that because of the past problems that have
occurred in and around the billiards hall he is recommending that the
present hours should not be extended past 1:00 a.m.
Ms. Szklarski addressed Mr. Wilson's concerns. She stated that the
memo was not intended to blame all the community problems on the
billiards hall. The memo is intended to analyze what would happen if
these hours were extended. She further stated if the hours were
extended past 1:00 a.m., loitering itself could become a problem which
could contribute towards noise and vandalism, etc.
Chairman Nadeau opened the public hearing.
The following people in the audience commented on the Players Club:
Shawn Seivens, 14737 NE 84th Street, was in favor of the request. He
did not feel that three additional hours on Saturday and Sunday was
unreasonable. He stated that the billiards hall was there to help out
the community to give the kids some place to go.
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Darren Parrish, from Ramsey was also in favor
there are a lot of people between the ages of 18
place to go after they get off work.
of the request because
and 25 that need a
Planning Commission Mintues
March 24, 1992
Page 3
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Mike Luckaman was also in
really had no place to go.
problems. He felt the curfew
favor of the request as the older crowd
He felt that they did not cause any
applied to the younger kids.
Mike Alama, 18038 Naples street, was also in favor of the request. The
only people after 1:00 a.m. who are in the billiards hall are the
people who want to shoot pool, and not hang out and cause problems. He
has never seen an officer at the billiards hall after 1:00 a.m. He
stated that he managed the billiards club under the former owner and
the main reason he sold out was because he could not have the hours
extended.
JoAnn Pager, 9032 175th Lane, stated she was also in favor of the
extending the hours because her children spent a lot of time at the
billiards. She would not like to see the billiards hall have to shut
down. Ms. Pager felt her children were safe at the billiards club as
then they were not at a party somewhere getting drunk and getting into
trouble. She further stated that the younger generation really does
not have a place to go in Elk River to hang out with their peers.
Businesses have to be able to compete with other businesses.
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Paul Ash of Nowthen, stated that he would rather have his kids hang out
at the billiards hall where there is some supervision than running all
over town. He felt the City was being unreasonable as far as the hours
of operation.
Mr. Rohlf stated that one of the problems the City has had with the
billiards hall is that it has not been supervised. One of the
conditions when this conditional use permit was originally issued was
adult supervision. Violation of their permit has occurred because the
hall was being run by minors after hours.
Mr. Wilson stated there was only one occasion where the billiards hall
was not supervised properly and that was with his own son who was
seventeen at the time.
Mr. Lukaman felt there should be some sort of compromise by the City to
allow the billiards hall to stay open those few extra hours.
Corey Mower from Rogers was also in favor of the request as he felt the
older crowd needed a place to go after working hours.
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Carol Mills, representing the Guardian Angels Foundation, stated her
concerns with the billiard hall facility because of the potential
loitering, late hours of operation, extra loud noises, and people
driving across their property. Ms. Mills said their facility is
turning into a facility for the terminally ill and any additional
disturbances bother them. She stated that the people in the north wing
are very ill and they should be allowed a peaceful night's sleep. Ms.
Mills stated she would like to see the hours remain at 1:00 a.m. Mr.
Wilson explained that he talked to Dr. Rock and he said that he has
never had any complaints from any of the staff or patients from the
nursing home. He further stated that he has never seen anyone driving
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Planning Commission Mintues
March 24, 1992
Page 4
across their property. Ms. Mills stated that she had witnesses and
license numbers of vehicles driving across their property.
Chairman Nadeau closed the public hearing.
Commissioner Eberley supported staff's concern regarding police
protection as this would be an additional cost to City services.
commissioner Minton didn't see
could make a big difference
hall. Mr. Wilson explained that
to other places to play pool.
how a few extra people after 1:00 a.m.
in financially supporting the billiards
the people in this area are now going
Chairman Nadeau felt that the City needs a place for kids to go. At
least if their playing pool, they're not outside getting into trouble.
Chairman Nadeau felt the hours should be extended as he would like to
see the Players Club stay open. He suggested putting up a fence to
keep vehicles from intruding on the nursing home property. Chairman
Nadeau suggested maybe they should table the request to give the
Planning Commission more time to study the issue and come up with
solutions to alleviate the concerns such as extra police patrol, and
violations on nursing home property.
COMMISSIONER SPOTTS MOVED TO RECOMMEND TO THE CITY COUNCIL APPROVAL OF
AN AMENDMENT TO PLAYER'S CLUB'S CURRENT CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT TO ALLOW
THE HOURS OF OPERATION FOR THE BILLIARD FACILITY TO BE EXTENDED TO 4:00
A.M. ON SATURDAY AND SUNDAYS. COMMISSIONER EBERLEY SECONDED THE
MOTION. THE MOTION FAILED 0-3. CHAIRMAN NADEAU ABSTAINED FROM THE
VOTE.
The Planning Commission suggested that they would like to see the City
Council consider compromise measures to allow the possibility of
extending the hours by eliminating the possible traffic concerns
between the billiards hall and adjoining property and concerns
regarding the extra police patrol.
6. Consider Variance Request (Front Yard Setback) by Charles & Ann
Christensen/P.H.
Janelle Szklarski, Zoning Assistant, explained that Charles & Ann
Christensen of 5221 Michaele Lane, Minnetonka, are requesting a
variance from the front yard setback requirement. Because of the low
ground and poor soils on the lot, the applicants would like to set
their house back only 30 feet from the property line rather than the 50
feet that is now required. Ms. Szklarski, briefly addressed each of
the standards as well as the applicant's response to these standards.
Staff is recommending approval of the request subject to the three
stipulations as outlined in staff's memo dated 3/12/92.
Chairman Nadeau opened the public hearing.
The following people were opposed to the request:
Planning Commission Mintues
March 24, 1992
Page 5
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Linda Quam, 12578 212th Avenue, addressed her concerns stating that it
would affect the property values of their homes plus the resale ability
as all the other homes are set back 50 feet. Ms. Quam was further
concerned with the safety issue because there was a lot of teenage
drivers in the area and felt their view would be blocked on this corner
lot.
Janelle Szklarski, commented on the safety issue and
variance should not present any traffic concerns
clearance, etc. Terry Maurer, City Engineer, was in
feet is a typical setback for buildings on residential
felt that the
as far as vision
agreement as 30
lots in the City.
Ed stevens, 21216 Vernon street, stated that by allowing the house to
be set back 30 feet, it would obstruct the view of the other homes.
Mr. stevens stated that it was a great expense for others in the
neighborhood to set their houses back 50 feet because of the additional
fill and retaining walls. He did not feel it was unreasonable for the
others to share the same expense and comply with the ordinance.
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Ms. Szklarski explained that at the time that most of the houses were
built in the Greenhead Acres 3rd Addition, the Wetland Conservation Act
of 1991 was not in place. She stated that she was not sure where the
exact boundaries were of the wetlands on this lot as staff is waiting
for the wetland maps. If the applicants plan to fill part of the
wetland area, the part they fill will have to be replaced. At the
expense of the applicant, someone from the Soil and Water Conservation
District could delineate the wetlands with the applicant's approval.
Carl Squires,
comply with the
everyone else to
21175 Vernon Street, felt that the Christensens should
50 ft. setback because it has been a big expense for
meet the 50 ft. setback.
James Lunquist, 21244 Vernon Street, felt
should deny this request because everyone else
to comply with the rules regarding the 50 ft.
that their house would not be in alignment
therefore, obstructing their view.
the Planning Commission
in the neighborhood had
setback. He further felt
with the other homes,
Dale Osteen, 21082 Vernon Street, was also concerned with the setbacks
and the position of the house.
Rodney Copeland, 12504 212th Avenue, was also concerned with the safety
issue because of the number kids in the area as the sight distance
would be reduced because the house is closer to the corner. He was
also concerned with setting a precedent for additional lots in the area.
Ms. Christensen did not understand how placing their house back 30 feet
instead of 50 feet would be detrimental to the neighborhood. She felt
that their house would fit in with the other homes in the neighborhood.
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Paul Wayland, 12650 212th Avenue, concurred with his fellow neighbors
that they should comply with the 50 ft. setback as he didn't feel there
was a undue hardship caused by the lay of the land. He felt that
aesthetic values were also important.
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Planning Commission Mintues
March 24, 1992
Page 6
Mr. Paul Quam felt it would be setting a precedent for adjoining lots.
Tammie Finstad, 12673 212th Avenue, concurred with the neighbors that
she would like to see openness and felt it would block their view.
Paul Whalen addressed the five standards stating that he did not feel
they had a hardship because of the lay of the land. They could bring
in fill and set their house further back.
steve Rohlf, Building and Zoning Administrator, stated
Planning Commission has to base their decision on the five
for a variance not by a popular vote of the neighborhood.
that the
standards
Sue Lundquist felt that they could meet the setbacks by moving the
house back.
Chairman Nadeau closed the public hearing.
Commissioner Minton felt that if the same soil conditions run north and
south the applicant could shift the house 20 feet to the north without
any major difficulties.
Staff had to agree with Commissioner Minton, that if the same soil
conditions run north and south, the house could be moved and still
meet all the setbacks. After discussing this issue, The Planning
Commission was in agreement.
COMMISSIONER EBERLEY MOVED TO RECOMMEND DENIAL OF THE VARIANCE REQUEST
BY CHARLES & ANN CHRISTENSEN BASED ON THE FOLLOWING FINDINGS OF FACT:
THAT THE HARDSHIP TO THE PETITIONERS IS NOT ALONE DUE TO THE LAY OF THE
LAND, BUT ECONOMICS. AlSO THAT BECAUSE THERE IS NO DELINEATION OF THE
WETLANDS IT WAS PREMATURE TO CITE THE WETLANDS CONSERVATION ACT AS A
HARDSHIP. COMMISSIONER MINTON SECONDED THE MOTION. THE MOTION CARRIED
4-0.
A short 10 minute recess was taken at this time.
7. Consider Conditional Use Permit Request (Home Occupation/Addition) by
David Erbstoesser/P.H.
Janelle Szklarski, Zoning Assistant, explained that David & Ardyce
Erbstoesser of 11796 191st Avenue are requesting a conditional use
permit to construct a 1,024 addition to an existing detached accessory
building in order to accommodate a home occupation for wood craft
products. Ms. Szklarski, briefly reviewed the concerns as submitted in
Richard Vagts' letter. She stated that Mr. Vagts had no concerns on
the way the Erbstoessers were conducting their business, but on the
size of the building. Staff is recommending approval of the home
occupation at its present size, but denial of the expansion of the
existing building. Staff feels that the proposed expansion would be
detrimental to the neighborhood because of its size.
Mr. Erbstoesser stated that he planned to retire and needed the
additional area for their wood craft products.
Planning Commission Mintues
March 24, 1992
Page 7
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Chairman Nadeau opened the public hearing.
Gary Werbowski, 19038 Jackson Road, was concerned with the additional
noise and would like to see a privacy fence put up.
There being no additional comments, Chairman Nadeau closed the public
hearing.
Mr. Erbstoesser's stated that they had talked to their neighbors and
most of them had the same concerns as Mr. Vagts. They felt that this
large of structure would be detrimental to the neighborhood, and
therefore, they were withdrawing their request for the addition to the
existing structure. Mr. Erbstoesser further stated that they could
build a small shed in which to store their wood.
COMMISSIONER SPOTTS MOVED TO RECOMMEND
THE CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT BY DAVID
11796 1915T AVE NW TO ALLOW THE HOME
EXISTING SIZE SUBJECT TO THE FOLLOWING
TO THE CITY COUNCIL APPROVAL OF
AND ARDYCE ERBSTOESSER LOCATED AT
OCCUPATION TO CONTINUE AT ITS
STIPULATION:
1. THAT THE OPERATION BE SUBJECT TO STANDARDS B THROUGH K FOR A
PERMITTED HOME OCCUPATION AS OUTLINED IN THE CITY CODE ON PAGE
9.85. IF THE BUSINESS GOES BEYOND THESE STANDARDS THEY WILL NEED
TO AMEND THEIR CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT.
. COMMISSIONER EBERLEY SECONDED THE MOTION. THE MOTION CARRIED 4-0.
8. Consider CUP Request (Renewal of Asphalt Plant) By Commercial Asphalt
Company/P.H.
Steve Rohlf, Building and Zoning Administrator, explained that
Commercial Asphalt Company, a division of Tiller Corporation is
requesting renewal of a conditional use permit for a temporary asphalt
plant. Staff is recommending approval as this operation meets the
seven standards for a conditional use permit.
Steve Rohlf, Building and Zoning Administrator addressed stipulation #1
in his memo as far as the wording. He explained that the intent of
stockpiling of recyclable material was to allow Commercial Asphalt
Company a carryover time for material from one processing year to the
next so that they have materials to start up the next processing year.
The Planning Commission discussed the issue of stockpiling of
recyclables. Their main concern was dumping of demolition debris and
the size of the stockpiles. Dick Peterson, Vice President of
Operations, stated that it is not a demolition landfill and went on to
explain the stockpiling of recyclables. Mr. Rohlf stated that
typically the County handles permits for stockpiling demolition debris.
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Mr. Peterson stated that they did not have a problem with the carry
over time just so they were sure to have materials in the spring for
repair of driveways, roads, etc. when they will need fresh asphalt.
There may be times when they have an excess of recyclable material from
Planning commission Mintues
March 24, 1992
Page 8
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one year to the next but in the long run it basically averages out to
be the same amount.
Gary Sauer, President of the Tiller Corporation, explained that there is
probably 2,000,000 yards of recyclable material taken out every year
and if this material were landfilled it would cover approximately 25
acres, 50 feet deep. Mr. Sauer stated that recyclable material can be
used just as well as virgin material.
Chairman Nadeau opened the public hearing. There being no one for or
against the matter, Chairman Nadeau closed the public hearing.
COMMISSIONER EBERLEY MOVED TO RECOMMEND TO THE CITY COUNCIL APPROVAL OF
THE RENEWAL OF A CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT FOR A TEMPORARY ASPHALT PLANT
BY COMMERCIAL ASPHALT COMPANY, A DIVISION OF TILLER CORPORATION CITING
STAFF'S MEMO ALONG WITH THE BACK UP MATERIAL ON TESTING AS FINDINGS OF
FACT. ALSO TO CONTINUE THE STIPULATIONS THAT WERE APPROVED ON MAY 21,
1990 THAT ARE STILL APPLICABLE ALONG WITH STAFF'S THREE ADDITIONAL
STIPULATIONS AS CITED IN STAFF'S MEMO DATED 3/12/92. COMMISSIONER
SPOTTS SECONDED THE MOTION. THE MOTION CARRIED 4-0.
9.
Consider "Hillside Estates" Development by Rick Foster of
Properties/P.H.
Oxbow
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This item was introduced by Steve Rohlf, Building and Zoning
Administrator, starting with the zone change. Mr. Rohlf briefly
reviewed his reasons for recommending approval of the zone change for
the 13 acre parcel to PUD with a commercial land use. Mr. Foster was
in agreement that the parcel should be zoned commercial because the
property is adjacent to Highway 169; the intersection is proposed to be
signalized; it is a major corridor into Elk River, and would not be a
good spot for residential.
Mr. Rohlf further stated that he was also recommending approval of the
zone change for the residential area to PUD which consisted of
approximately 40 acres. He explained the best way to handle the
terrain in this plat would be lot size averaging, which gives the
developer some flexibility in dealing with these problems. Mr. Foster
was in agreement.
COMMISSIONER EBERLEY MOVED TO EXTEND THE HOURS OF THE MEETING BEYOND
12:00 MIDNIGHT. COMMISSIONER MINTON SECONDED THE MOTION. THE MOTION
CARRIED 4-0.
Chairman Nadeau opened the public hearing.
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A lot of time was spent discussing this issue. There was some concern
with the lot size averaging as the lots were undersized for the current
zoning which requires 20,000 square foot lots. The Planning Commission
wanted to see more of a creative layout of the lots to save more of the
trees. They also wanted to see a buffer of trees between the
commercial and residential areas. Mr. Foster agreed to make some
revisions regarding the lot sizes.
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Planning Commission Mintues
March 24, 1992
Page 9
Because of the lateness of the meeting, it was the general consensus to
table this issue along with the remaining agenda items.
COMMISSIONER EBERLEY MOVED TO CONTINUE THE PUBLIC HEARING ON THIS
ALONG WITH THE REST OF THE AGENDA ITEMS FOR A SPECIAL MEETING
HELD AT CITY HALL ON MARCH 31, 1992, STARTING AT 7:00
COMMISSIONER SPOTTS SECONDED THE MOTION. THE MOTION CARRIED 4-0.
14. Adjournment
There being
THE MEETING.
CARRIED 4-0.
ITEM
TO BE
P.M.
no further business, COMMISSION EBERLEY MOVED TO ADJOURN
COMMISSIONER SPOTTS SECONDED THE MOTION. THE MOTION
The meeting of the Elk River Planning Commission adjourned at approximately
12:35 a.m.
Respectfully submitted,
0haitHUYlJauu
Sharon Maue
Recording Secretary