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03-24-1992 PC MIN . . . MINUTES OF THE ELK RIVER PLANNING COMMISSION HELD AT THE ELK RIVER PUBLIC LIBRARY MARCH 24, 1992 Members Present: Chairman Nadeau, Commissioners spotts, Eberley, and Minton Members Absent: commissioners Johnson, VanValkenburg & Tveite Staff Present: Stephen Rohlf, Building & Zoning Administrator; Janelle Szklarski, zoning Assistant; Terry Maurer, City Engineer 1. Pursuant to due call and notice thereof; the meeting of the Elk River Planning Commission was called to order at 7:00 p.m. 2. Consider 3/24/92 Planning Commission Agenda Item 13.1 - Topics of Discussion for the Fall Planning Commission Conference Item 13.2 - Elk River Planning Commission 1992 Goals COMMISSIONER SPOTTS AGENDA AS AMENDED. MOTION CARRIED 4-0. MOVED TO APPROVE THE 3/24/92 PLANNING COMMISSION COMMISSIONER MINTON SECONDED THE MOTION. THE 3. Consider 2/25/92 Planning Commission Minutes COMMISSIONER MINTON MOVED TO APPROVE THE 2/25/92 PLANNING COMMISSION MINUTES. COMMISSIONER EBERLEY SECONDED THE MOTION. THE MOTION CARRIED 4-0. 4. Planning Commission Representative to Attend the 4/20/92 City Council Meeting It was indicated that Commissioner Minton would attend the 4/20/92 City Council Meeting. 5. Consider CUP Amendment for Billiards Hall (Hours of Operation) by Player's Club Billiard/P.H. Janelle szklarski, Zoning Assistant, stated that the applicant is requesting that their conditional use permit be amended to expand the hours of operation until 4:00 a.m. on Saturday and Sunday mornings. The main reason they are requesting an expansion of their hours is because they are losing some of their customers to surrounding communities that have billiards facilities open past 1:00 a.m. Ms. Szklarski explained that the Cities of Monticello, Coon Rapids and East Bethel all have billiard halls open past 1:00 a.m. The City of Anoka, does restrict their hours of operation to 1:00 a.m. Staff is not recommending approval of the proposed conditional use permit amendment because they feel it would be detrimental to surrounding properties to have the late hours of operation. The Elk River Police Department is also recommending denial because of the past problems that have occurred in and around the billiards hall. Planning Commission Mintues March 24, 1992 Page 2 . . Clark Wilson stated that he was very upset by the City's memo as there was no proof that any of these violations ever happened. He further stated that he could not continue to operate his business financially if the hours of operation were not extended. He explained that the billiards hall in Anoka had to close their business because the City would not allow them to expand their hours to stay consistent with the surrounding communities. Mr. Wilson further addressed staff's concerns regarding the hours of operation, alcohol related offenses, vandalism complaints, and excessive noise. Mr. Wilson felt that his operation did not affect the nursing home or other residents in the area. He stated that one of the major highways (169) runs right past the nursing home, which he feels is much nosier than his business. He stated there could not be a lot of noise from his clients when they were inside playing pool. He went on to explain that there are many people who work the midnight shift that need some place to go. At this time, Mr. Wilson read an article from the Elk River star News regarding a 14-year-old charged by police for drinking at 2:30 p.m., which he passed on to the Commissioners. Mr. Wilson stated that teenage drinking is a major problem nation wide. He stated he was not responsible for kids being arrested for alcohol related offenses. He stated that all the problems in the City of Elk River do not come from the billiards hall. He felt that if the billiards hall is not allowed to continue, the Elk River Mall will be overrun by these same kids who have no where else to go. He felt that the billiards hall does the City a great service by giving these kids some place to go (both the younger and older crowds). Commissioner spotts read a letter submitted by Thomas D. Zerwas, Police Chief which states, that because of the past problems that have occurred in and around the billiards hall he is recommending that the present hours should not be extended past 1:00 a.m. Ms. Szklarski addressed Mr. Wilson's concerns. She stated that the memo was not intended to blame all the community problems on the billiards hall. The memo is intended to analyze what would happen if these hours were extended. She further stated if the hours were extended past 1:00 a.m., loitering itself could become a problem which could contribute towards noise and vandalism, etc. Chairman Nadeau opened the public hearing. The following people in the audience commented on the Players Club: Shawn Seivens, 14737 NE 84th Street, was in favor of the request. He did not feel that three additional hours on Saturday and Sunday was unreasonable. He stated that the billiards hall was there to help out the community to give the kids some place to go. . Darren Parrish, from Ramsey was also in favor there are a lot of people between the ages of 18 place to go after they get off work. of the request because and 25 that need a Planning Commission Mintues March 24, 1992 Page 3 . Mike Luckaman was also in really had no place to go. problems. He felt the curfew favor of the request as the older crowd He felt that they did not cause any applied to the younger kids. Mike Alama, 18038 Naples street, was also in favor of the request. The only people after 1:00 a.m. who are in the billiards hall are the people who want to shoot pool, and not hang out and cause problems. He has never seen an officer at the billiards hall after 1:00 a.m. He stated that he managed the billiards club under the former owner and the main reason he sold out was because he could not have the hours extended. JoAnn Pager, 9032 175th Lane, stated she was also in favor of the extending the hours because her children spent a lot of time at the billiards. She would not like to see the billiards hall have to shut down. Ms. Pager felt her children were safe at the billiards club as then they were not at a party somewhere getting drunk and getting into trouble. She further stated that the younger generation really does not have a place to go in Elk River to hang out with their peers. Businesses have to be able to compete with other businesses. . Paul Ash of Nowthen, stated that he would rather have his kids hang out at the billiards hall where there is some supervision than running all over town. He felt the City was being unreasonable as far as the hours of operation. Mr. Rohlf stated that one of the problems the City has had with the billiards hall is that it has not been supervised. One of the conditions when this conditional use permit was originally issued was adult supervision. Violation of their permit has occurred because the hall was being run by minors after hours. Mr. Wilson stated there was only one occasion where the billiards hall was not supervised properly and that was with his own son who was seventeen at the time. Mr. Lukaman felt there should be some sort of compromise by the City to allow the billiards hall to stay open those few extra hours. Corey Mower from Rogers was also in favor of the request as he felt the older crowd needed a place to go after working hours. . Carol Mills, representing the Guardian Angels Foundation, stated her concerns with the billiard hall facility because of the potential loitering, late hours of operation, extra loud noises, and people driving across their property. Ms. Mills said their facility is turning into a facility for the terminally ill and any additional disturbances bother them. She stated that the people in the north wing are very ill and they should be allowed a peaceful night's sleep. Ms. Mills stated she would like to see the hours remain at 1:00 a.m. Mr. Wilson explained that he talked to Dr. Rock and he said that he has never had any complaints from any of the staff or patients from the nursing home. He further stated that he has never seen anyone driving . . . Planning Commission Mintues March 24, 1992 Page 4 across their property. Ms. Mills stated that she had witnesses and license numbers of vehicles driving across their property. Chairman Nadeau closed the public hearing. Commissioner Eberley supported staff's concern regarding police protection as this would be an additional cost to City services. commissioner Minton didn't see could make a big difference hall. Mr. Wilson explained that to other places to play pool. how a few extra people after 1:00 a.m. in financially supporting the billiards the people in this area are now going Chairman Nadeau felt that the City needs a place for kids to go. At least if their playing pool, they're not outside getting into trouble. Chairman Nadeau felt the hours should be extended as he would like to see the Players Club stay open. He suggested putting up a fence to keep vehicles from intruding on the nursing home property. Chairman Nadeau suggested maybe they should table the request to give the Planning Commission more time to study the issue and come up with solutions to alleviate the concerns such as extra police patrol, and violations on nursing home property. COMMISSIONER SPOTTS MOVED TO RECOMMEND TO THE CITY COUNCIL APPROVAL OF AN AMENDMENT TO PLAYER'S CLUB'S CURRENT CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT TO ALLOW THE HOURS OF OPERATION FOR THE BILLIARD FACILITY TO BE EXTENDED TO 4:00 A.M. ON SATURDAY AND SUNDAYS. COMMISSIONER EBERLEY SECONDED THE MOTION. THE MOTION FAILED 0-3. CHAIRMAN NADEAU ABSTAINED FROM THE VOTE. The Planning Commission suggested that they would like to see the City Council consider compromise measures to allow the possibility of extending the hours by eliminating the possible traffic concerns between the billiards hall and adjoining property and concerns regarding the extra police patrol. 6. Consider Variance Request (Front Yard Setback) by Charles & Ann Christensen/P.H. Janelle Szklarski, Zoning Assistant, explained that Charles & Ann Christensen of 5221 Michaele Lane, Minnetonka, are requesting a variance from the front yard setback requirement. Because of the low ground and poor soils on the lot, the applicants would like to set their house back only 30 feet from the property line rather than the 50 feet that is now required. Ms. Szklarski, briefly addressed each of the standards as well as the applicant's response to these standards. Staff is recommending approval of the request subject to the three stipulations as outlined in staff's memo dated 3/12/92. Chairman Nadeau opened the public hearing. The following people were opposed to the request: Planning Commission Mintues March 24, 1992 Page 5 . Linda Quam, 12578 212th Avenue, addressed her concerns stating that it would affect the property values of their homes plus the resale ability as all the other homes are set back 50 feet. Ms. Quam was further concerned with the safety issue because there was a lot of teenage drivers in the area and felt their view would be blocked on this corner lot. Janelle Szklarski, commented on the safety issue and variance should not present any traffic concerns clearance, etc. Terry Maurer, City Engineer, was in feet is a typical setback for buildings on residential felt that the as far as vision agreement as 30 lots in the City. Ed stevens, 21216 Vernon street, stated that by allowing the house to be set back 30 feet, it would obstruct the view of the other homes. Mr. stevens stated that it was a great expense for others in the neighborhood to set their houses back 50 feet because of the additional fill and retaining walls. He did not feel it was unreasonable for the others to share the same expense and comply with the ordinance. . Ms. Szklarski explained that at the time that most of the houses were built in the Greenhead Acres 3rd Addition, the Wetland Conservation Act of 1991 was not in place. She stated that she was not sure where the exact boundaries were of the wetlands on this lot as staff is waiting for the wetland maps. If the applicants plan to fill part of the wetland area, the part they fill will have to be replaced. At the expense of the applicant, someone from the Soil and Water Conservation District could delineate the wetlands with the applicant's approval. Carl Squires, comply with the everyone else to 21175 Vernon Street, felt that the Christensens should 50 ft. setback because it has been a big expense for meet the 50 ft. setback. James Lunquist, 21244 Vernon Street, felt should deny this request because everyone else to comply with the rules regarding the 50 ft. that their house would not be in alignment therefore, obstructing their view. the Planning Commission in the neighborhood had setback. He further felt with the other homes, Dale Osteen, 21082 Vernon Street, was also concerned with the setbacks and the position of the house. Rodney Copeland, 12504 212th Avenue, was also concerned with the safety issue because of the number kids in the area as the sight distance would be reduced because the house is closer to the corner. He was also concerned with setting a precedent for additional lots in the area. Ms. Christensen did not understand how placing their house back 30 feet instead of 50 feet would be detrimental to the neighborhood. She felt that their house would fit in with the other homes in the neighborhood. . Paul Wayland, 12650 212th Avenue, concurred with his fellow neighbors that they should comply with the 50 ft. setback as he didn't feel there was a undue hardship caused by the lay of the land. He felt that aesthetic values were also important. . . . Planning Commission Mintues March 24, 1992 Page 6 Mr. Paul Quam felt it would be setting a precedent for adjoining lots. Tammie Finstad, 12673 212th Avenue, concurred with the neighbors that she would like to see openness and felt it would block their view. Paul Whalen addressed the five standards stating that he did not feel they had a hardship because of the lay of the land. They could bring in fill and set their house further back. steve Rohlf, Building and Zoning Administrator, stated Planning Commission has to base their decision on the five for a variance not by a popular vote of the neighborhood. that the standards Sue Lundquist felt that they could meet the setbacks by moving the house back. Chairman Nadeau closed the public hearing. Commissioner Minton felt that if the same soil conditions run north and south the applicant could shift the house 20 feet to the north without any major difficulties. Staff had to agree with Commissioner Minton, that if the same soil conditions run north and south, the house could be moved and still meet all the setbacks. After discussing this issue, The Planning Commission was in agreement. COMMISSIONER EBERLEY MOVED TO RECOMMEND DENIAL OF THE VARIANCE REQUEST BY CHARLES & ANN CHRISTENSEN BASED ON THE FOLLOWING FINDINGS OF FACT: THAT THE HARDSHIP TO THE PETITIONERS IS NOT ALONE DUE TO THE LAY OF THE LAND, BUT ECONOMICS. AlSO THAT BECAUSE THERE IS NO DELINEATION OF THE WETLANDS IT WAS PREMATURE TO CITE THE WETLANDS CONSERVATION ACT AS A HARDSHIP. COMMISSIONER MINTON SECONDED THE MOTION. THE MOTION CARRIED 4-0. A short 10 minute recess was taken at this time. 7. Consider Conditional Use Permit Request (Home Occupation/Addition) by David Erbstoesser/P.H. Janelle Szklarski, Zoning Assistant, explained that David & Ardyce Erbstoesser of 11796 191st Avenue are requesting a conditional use permit to construct a 1,024 addition to an existing detached accessory building in order to accommodate a home occupation for wood craft products. Ms. Szklarski, briefly reviewed the concerns as submitted in Richard Vagts' letter. She stated that Mr. Vagts had no concerns on the way the Erbstoessers were conducting their business, but on the size of the building. Staff is recommending approval of the home occupation at its present size, but denial of the expansion of the existing building. Staff feels that the proposed expansion would be detrimental to the neighborhood because of its size. Mr. Erbstoesser stated that he planned to retire and needed the additional area for their wood craft products. Planning Commission Mintues March 24, 1992 Page 7 . Chairman Nadeau opened the public hearing. Gary Werbowski, 19038 Jackson Road, was concerned with the additional noise and would like to see a privacy fence put up. There being no additional comments, Chairman Nadeau closed the public hearing. Mr. Erbstoesser's stated that they had talked to their neighbors and most of them had the same concerns as Mr. Vagts. They felt that this large of structure would be detrimental to the neighborhood, and therefore, they were withdrawing their request for the addition to the existing structure. Mr. Erbstoesser further stated that they could build a small shed in which to store their wood. COMMISSIONER SPOTTS MOVED TO RECOMMEND THE CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT BY DAVID 11796 1915T AVE NW TO ALLOW THE HOME EXISTING SIZE SUBJECT TO THE FOLLOWING TO THE CITY COUNCIL APPROVAL OF AND ARDYCE ERBSTOESSER LOCATED AT OCCUPATION TO CONTINUE AT ITS STIPULATION: 1. THAT THE OPERATION BE SUBJECT TO STANDARDS B THROUGH K FOR A PERMITTED HOME OCCUPATION AS OUTLINED IN THE CITY CODE ON PAGE 9.85. IF THE BUSINESS GOES BEYOND THESE STANDARDS THEY WILL NEED TO AMEND THEIR CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT. . COMMISSIONER EBERLEY SECONDED THE MOTION. THE MOTION CARRIED 4-0. 8. Consider CUP Request (Renewal of Asphalt Plant) By Commercial Asphalt Company/P.H. Steve Rohlf, Building and Zoning Administrator, explained that Commercial Asphalt Company, a division of Tiller Corporation is requesting renewal of a conditional use permit for a temporary asphalt plant. Staff is recommending approval as this operation meets the seven standards for a conditional use permit. Steve Rohlf, Building and Zoning Administrator addressed stipulation #1 in his memo as far as the wording. He explained that the intent of stockpiling of recyclable material was to allow Commercial Asphalt Company a carryover time for material from one processing year to the next so that they have materials to start up the next processing year. The Planning Commission discussed the issue of stockpiling of recyclables. Their main concern was dumping of demolition debris and the size of the stockpiles. Dick Peterson, Vice President of Operations, stated that it is not a demolition landfill and went on to explain the stockpiling of recyclables. Mr. Rohlf stated that typically the County handles permits for stockpiling demolition debris. . Mr. Peterson stated that they did not have a problem with the carry over time just so they were sure to have materials in the spring for repair of driveways, roads, etc. when they will need fresh asphalt. There may be times when they have an excess of recyclable material from Planning commission Mintues March 24, 1992 Page 8 . one year to the next but in the long run it basically averages out to be the same amount. Gary Sauer, President of the Tiller Corporation, explained that there is probably 2,000,000 yards of recyclable material taken out every year and if this material were landfilled it would cover approximately 25 acres, 50 feet deep. Mr. Sauer stated that recyclable material can be used just as well as virgin material. Chairman Nadeau opened the public hearing. There being no one for or against the matter, Chairman Nadeau closed the public hearing. COMMISSIONER EBERLEY MOVED TO RECOMMEND TO THE CITY COUNCIL APPROVAL OF THE RENEWAL OF A CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT FOR A TEMPORARY ASPHALT PLANT BY COMMERCIAL ASPHALT COMPANY, A DIVISION OF TILLER CORPORATION CITING STAFF'S MEMO ALONG WITH THE BACK UP MATERIAL ON TESTING AS FINDINGS OF FACT. ALSO TO CONTINUE THE STIPULATIONS THAT WERE APPROVED ON MAY 21, 1990 THAT ARE STILL APPLICABLE ALONG WITH STAFF'S THREE ADDITIONAL STIPULATIONS AS CITED IN STAFF'S MEMO DATED 3/12/92. COMMISSIONER SPOTTS SECONDED THE MOTION. THE MOTION CARRIED 4-0. 9. Consider "Hillside Estates" Development by Rick Foster of Properties/P.H. Oxbow . This item was introduced by Steve Rohlf, Building and Zoning Administrator, starting with the zone change. Mr. Rohlf briefly reviewed his reasons for recommending approval of the zone change for the 13 acre parcel to PUD with a commercial land use. Mr. Foster was in agreement that the parcel should be zoned commercial because the property is adjacent to Highway 169; the intersection is proposed to be signalized; it is a major corridor into Elk River, and would not be a good spot for residential. Mr. Rohlf further stated that he was also recommending approval of the zone change for the residential area to PUD which consisted of approximately 40 acres. He explained the best way to handle the terrain in this plat would be lot size averaging, which gives the developer some flexibility in dealing with these problems. Mr. Foster was in agreement. COMMISSIONER EBERLEY MOVED TO EXTEND THE HOURS OF THE MEETING BEYOND 12:00 MIDNIGHT. COMMISSIONER MINTON SECONDED THE MOTION. THE MOTION CARRIED 4-0. Chairman Nadeau opened the public hearing. . A lot of time was spent discussing this issue. There was some concern with the lot size averaging as the lots were undersized for the current zoning which requires 20,000 square foot lots. The Planning Commission wanted to see more of a creative layout of the lots to save more of the trees. They also wanted to see a buffer of trees between the commercial and residential areas. Mr. Foster agreed to make some revisions regarding the lot sizes. . . . Planning Commission Mintues March 24, 1992 Page 9 Because of the lateness of the meeting, it was the general consensus to table this issue along with the remaining agenda items. COMMISSIONER EBERLEY MOVED TO CONTINUE THE PUBLIC HEARING ON THIS ALONG WITH THE REST OF THE AGENDA ITEMS FOR A SPECIAL MEETING HELD AT CITY HALL ON MARCH 31, 1992, STARTING AT 7:00 COMMISSIONER SPOTTS SECONDED THE MOTION. THE MOTION CARRIED 4-0. 14. Adjournment There being THE MEETING. CARRIED 4-0. ITEM TO BE P.M. no further business, COMMISSION EBERLEY MOVED TO ADJOURN COMMISSIONER SPOTTS SECONDED THE MOTION. THE MOTION The meeting of the Elk River Planning Commission adjourned at approximately 12:35 a.m. Respectfully submitted, 0haitHUYlJauu Sharon Maue Recording Secretary