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09-03-1991 PC MIN . SPECIAL BUILDING & ZONING MINUTES REGARDING DEERFIELD 3RD & 4TH ADDITION HELD AT THE ELK RIVER CITY HALL TUESDAY, SEPTEMBER 3, 1991 Cliff Skogstad stated that this meeting will be recorded. He stated that this is an informational meeting so that everyone knows what is taking place. These are some of the additional corrections that are needed. Cliff explained the cul-de-sac, Deerfield 3rd is here, this is coming off of Dodge, I believe that is 190th. These are the lots that were involved in Deerfield 4th off of Carson Street. Larry Gloe lives here, Marlene Brown lives here. Also we addressed some other lots, lots 5 and 6 off of Carson Street, the filled areas 12, 13 & 14 off of Carson, lots 7, 8 & 9 and also lot 7 has to be addressed on these here. Steve Rohlf, Building & Zoning Administrator suggested that the people give their names and address when addressed for the recording. Ron Black - What are these dotted lines? . Cliff stated silt fences. for flow of line. that they are the existing slopes. This here is showing the This is the silt fence and he also put in the diversion lines water coming down and running around, this is also diversion Ron Black - What is a silt fence? . Cliff - A silt fence is a fence that slows down the water and erosion so that it slows the process down, and it shows it right here. It slows it down and moves it down the hill so that the whole hill is not coming down with it. That is one of the reason why I was given you a letter, as I noticed all that soil was coming down. The reason why were having this meeting is because Gerry supplied us with the corrections that is needed. The ordinance was not followed as far as erosion control and 4 to 1 slopes all the way through. As far as corrections is concerned, at this time we do not know who is going to correct it. What I am going to require is that this is going to be achieved some time before winter either through the permit process or whatever just so we can achieve the 4 to 1 slopes. I do not know if there were any agreements made between the builders and Gerry Smith, etc. I could not tell you. I really do not want to get involved in that. What we are requiring through Gerry was the corrections needed for the hill that he cut out and also for the filled area. The majority of corrections I feel might be able to be done through the permit process, but there is existing houses and there is problems with the erosion which has occurred on your lot there in the back part. It probably should be addressed through Gerry Smith because Gerry Smith is the one that did the filling of those lots and did not follow the erosion control plan that he was suppose to do. Whenever you create an area that large and take off all the vegetational growth it turns into a mess. One of the requirements was that he was suppose to have some sort of erosion control, whether it be blanketing, silting, or whatever. It has turned into a mess right there. Is there any questions on this? One of the things we wanted to do is eliminate all the "who said", "we said", "they said". We can talk to one person and they'll say there was an agreement made here and that is what I've been hearing . . . Page 2 since July 10th. You talk to Jerry and they say the homeowners allowed it, you talk to someone else and they never said it, and that is the biggest thing Gerry has provided us with the corrections. At this point, like I said, were not sure who is going to be doing the corrections because to be honest I do not know what took place. I know Lot 14 was sold to a builder and the way it sounds they have it worked out, but then talking to the builder, I am not sure. Is anyone here who owns lot 14? Lot 14 right of the-cul-de-sac. Larry Gloe - Is that the lot that is next to the Woodright house? yes. Larry Gloe - I know who owns that lot. Matter of fact a friend of my brothers - I did not know that until yesterday. They were cutting the trees on it yesterday because they are going to start building. Cliff - That is one of the reason I would like Gerry here because a lot of these questions should be addressed to Gerry with this much fill and stuff. Any of these lots on here people own? Marlene Brown - Where are the retaining walls going in? Cliff - your house is right here - he is showing a retaining wall running up the hill - right here with the silt fence protecting your property in addition to he is running a silt fence running across and a small one here creating a 4 to 1 coming back - he is proposing a tuck-under which will be addressed through the permit process, the only thing that could go on there is a tuck-under garage. That would bring this fill back up into a gradual slope off the hillside there. Same with this hill, there is a lot of fill that has to be brought back to create this 4 to 1 slope, and also so that we can eliminate the erosion with the silt fencing again, as far as the one with the filled lots, what we have right now are 1 to 1 slopes and no erosion control. There are some that want to close. Lot 8 wants to close. This is yours.. .what he is proposing, what he is showing is a 4 to 1 slope, and that is attained through fill - in addition to the 4- 1 slope. The letter here states that he has to also show the erosion control which would be 3 inches of top soil blanketing and etc. Otherwise even though we put all this fill here with this much water running off were still going to have it down here as far as the drainage in the back lot also. This is something that same thing would apply to on these lots here. What he is showing a retaining wall down at the bottom, a silt fence up on top to slow the water, and also the erosion and also down below for any other just to slow this up. Lisa - As far as the dirt that is already down there, he should have addressed the area before that before he would work on it - Bernie Herman - 19038 Carson - This plan shows the erosion control but what about the oak trees as they are very sensi ti ve to being screwed around with. You put a foot of fill over them and that is the reason they die. I am not involved with any of these lots, but I live right there. I've got three nice big trees there with four feet of fill around them. Is it possible that this can be addressed in here also to remove that fill so those trees don't die. . . . Page 3 Cliff - As far as addressing it on to your lot, is this something that Jerry did then...he pushed the trees on the lot Bernie - He pushed trees on my lot back here, but the trees that I'm concerned about are right up here in front. They are beneficial to me. They are not on my lot but they are beneficial to me. If he doesn't remove the fill from around the trees they are going to die. He did push trees on my lot down here at the bottom and there is some buried underneath the sand that he hauled in. That is not erosion! Cliff - That is part of the erosion because what happens is that tree is going to start to deteriorate and once it starts your going to start to get a sump in there, and through out the rain and everything else whatever drops is going to start flowing out. He is not suppose to be burying any kinds of trees or stumps on the buildable lots. Steve - The three trees your talking about are they off your lot? Bernie - One of them is on my lot, right up here in the corner, and there are two of them that are right next to it. Steve - Something else to caution you about is that any dirt on the roots or off the roots or even a cat compacting the dirt around the roots can kill the trees - so now that you've got the dirt there taking it off with a cat may do further damage. Bernie - Within a year that thing is going to die if it is not removed, I would strongly suggest that it is removed yet this fall, if nothing else by hand. Steve is that erosion that flowed onto your property? Bernie - No that is fill he hauled in there right next to my property. Cliff - As far as filling in around the trees themselves, I do not know if we can really address that. If you need fill for the lot itself and you probably shouldn't remove the trees if there is a lot of fill around them, but I really doh't know how I can address it any other way. Steve - if their on the lot he owns he could cut them down. Cliff - it is a shame, I go along with that. Bernie - You know that down at the bottom of the hill behind his lot here is trees and all this washing down is going to wash over the top of those two even though you've got a retaining wall your going to wash silt over the top of those and those trees are going to die because there is no erosion protection. Cliff - With the erosion part, there is to be 3 inches of heavier top soil, not sand and also the blanketing. It is a fabric that goes over it and also the seeding. What he is putting down is a highway mix which is fast growing and brings it back to its natural state or it original. One of the things on it is that there are slopes out there that are steeper than 4 to 1, but Page 4 . are not a man-made slope. When you create a slope greater than 4 to 1 and it is man-made it should be addressed and part of the addressing is the erosion control. Gerald Smith arrived at this time. Dan Voss, City Attorney, suggested that each lot be addressed one at a time and have the homeowner identify himself. Cliff informed the people that this meeting is being taped. The following people introduced themselves: Cliff Skogstad, Building Official for the City of Elk River; Terry Zajac, Residential Building Inspector; Steve Rohlf, B & Z Administrator; Duane Kropuenske, Council man from Ward 2; Dan Voss, City Attorney for the City of Elk River. Cliff - What I think were going to do since everyone has kind of reviewed this is to go lot from lot and we will address it that way. If you have any concerns or questions as far as the corrections, again these are just corrections at this point, they do have to be addressed prior to winter, but right now it is an informational meeting, and if anyone has concerns. Is there anyone here that owns lot 3 in Deerfield 3rd Addition? . Richard Petrick indicated that he owned lot 3, block 12. Cliff - Have you seen the corrections that need to go on there? Steve suggested that Richard step forward to see what the plans look like as far as the retaining wall, tuck under garage, 4 to 1 slope, silt fencing. Again with all this stuff as far as erosion control that is 3 in. of top soil, highway mix installed, blanketing all the way through, also the silt fencing. What were trying to do is eliminate this problem right now for erosion. What happens when this large of an area is being developed with any kind of rain we get all the dirt and sediments washing down into Baldwin Street or the cul-de-sac or whatever. We have to address it right now especially being such a large area. Do you have any problem with the corrections? Richard's indicated none. Cliff - Anyone here with Lot 4? Steve -1 think before you go off Lot 3, what is your understanding of who is going to do these corrections that are going to be required by the City? Richard Petrick - As far as retaining walls, Jerry was going to take care of them. Steve - As far as the fill that is needed to create the 4 to 1 slope, silt . fencing, seeding and stabilizing slopes was that Jerry also? Jerry -Were taking care of the whole thing. Steve - The whole hill itself? Page 5 . Cliff - Then Gerry your saying you will be taking care of this whole hill, and realistically we will not have to go through each one. The one thing that we are looking at is a deadline of October 1st because in order for this to work we have to get something established which will be a highway mix or also the blanketing etc. So 3, 4 & 5 is - anybody own Lot 4, Block 12. Jim Rooney, Fine Line Hom~s indicated Yes, I do. Cliff - Do you have any problems with the corrections or anything? Mr. Rooney stated that he did not know what the corrections were. Cliff asked him to step up to the table to look at the corrections. What he is proposing is silt fencing, 4 to 1 slopes, two retaining walls coming down to the property lines. Its going to be a step process coming down. Mr. Rooney asked what is it going to be from the existing elevation then? Cliff stated that he is showing, the way it is right now, we have a 956 elevation, it will be 2 ft. higher in the back. It will be 6 ft higher here so 964 we'll have more of a gradual slope. What he is doing is taking the hill and pushing it out further so he can achieve the 4 to 1 slopes. . Rooney - So its going to raise up. Cliff - This is showing the elevations of 962 for the garage and 962 around the house and basement of 955 and that can be changed also through the split entries and so on. He's proposing a 8.8% driveway which is in compliance with our ordinance maximum 10% slope. r Mr. Rooney - So were going to have to put some fill on there, kind of what it amounts to. Cliff- According to Jerry he was going to take care of the fill and every thing on there. Gerry - If it needs fill, we will take care of it. I don't thing its going to need fill, but if it does were going to take care of it. Steve Rohlf - According to these plans it will need fill. Cliff- Its showing about 6 ft. in the back here with fill. Rooney - is that going to be compacted then or are we going to have to bury some extra blocks. Jerry Smith- by the time you dig your basement there will be some coming out of the basement. . Rooney - I'm concerned about having to bury some extra blocks. I thing it will be costly. Page 6 . Jerry Smith - I think we had better take a better look at that because I have not had a change to visit with you. Steve Rohlf - On lot 4 who is doing the silt fences, retaining wall and fill or whatever is need. Rooney - Gerry is. Gerry - I'm not sure it needs fill - I haven't looked at Lot 4 that close. Cliff- why don't you come up here and look at the plans. Jerry - By the time we get those basement dug up there should not be any fill needed. The way I was explained this was going to work because this is a tuck under here and on 3 there is going to be dirt coming out of the tuck-under there is going to be plenty of dirt left over so on lot 4. I'm not going to make a statement were going to furnish dirt until I absolutely know how much were going to need. Steve -These are the plans you submitted. Cliff these are the plans that show the elevations and this is basically what were going to be coming off of. . Gerry - I have not had a chance to get together with you on this. We have agreed to take care of the hill...this is the hill. Cliff - While this is still also because of the erosion. In order to achieve this 4 to 1 all of these are part of it. Gerry - If it needs some fill back here to achieve it, then we will put it in there...if its going to take some fill, I don't think it will. Steve are you unfamiliar with your plans? Gerry - I have not had a chance to go over 4. Steve - These were submitted for the corrections. Gerry - I've gone over 14, and 3. This one I have not gone over. I think what we can agree on is that I will take care of this hill if it is needed. Cliff - O.K. Gerry - I agree to all the retaining walls on Lot 3 and 4 and on the cul-de-sac, is that lot 14. Cliff - Basically the erosion control which is shown. Steve- Why don't you explain about the plans that we had. Gerry Smith submi tted them and we were reviewing them to see if they were adequate and . this is what were going to require on here once we approve them. Cliff - What it boils down to we were trying to get corrections from Gerry Smith. Throughout the process this was the fifth one, this plan were' approved by the City, Gerry has achieved our 4 to 1 slopes, and he did it . . . Page 7 through retaining walls. It looks like fill will have to be brought in to achieve the 4 to 1 slope also, in addition to, it also addresses the erosion control. The erosion control is 3 in. of top soil and all the disturbed areas are going to be seeded and also a blanketing is going to be provided on to the hillside for erosion control. . Gerry - We will plant trees up there on the hillside. Steve - What it boils down to Gerry provided these corrections, again this was the 5th copy. The City feels that this will work, so we will accept this as a plan on how to correct it. There is still the question who does the work? You may want to square this away with Gerry if your buying one of these lots or own one of these. Cliff - That is all were looking for is that everyone is very well aware of the corrections so that when the permit process starts they all know who's doing what and what is taking place. Steve - So if you agree to do the corrections heres what they are so you know what your agreeing to if your buying one of these lots whatever. Lot 19 Cliff, do you have any problems? Jim Anderson 18994 Carson (Lot 18) - Three days after I closed, I came home from work and a bulldozer was in my back yard and took off a few feet of top soil off the back top part of my lawn. I have a problem with that because the bulldozer (I have some pictures also of the what happened after the bulldozer was there) they cut right along my tree line which has some large oaks leaving some roots exposed from the bulldozer cutting and came right up next to those trees. I feel those trees are going to die, and when they do, I feel that Gerry should replace those trees when they do die, it is pretty much inevitable. Also it pretty much changes the drainage plan and any of the grading that had been done by my builder. It basically changed the whole thing, took out a lot of top soil, I now have a lot of sand back there. It looks like beach sand because they cut off so much of the top soil so it is pretty much worthless back there, it has big bulldozer tracks, it cost me a lot of money in order for me to straighten that out and I don't feel it was my responsibility when it was my land, no permission was ever asked for, nor granted to go back on my lot with that bulldozer, I just came home and found them back there. I need that taken care of. My whole back yard has all kinds of erosion problems as a result of that. Also on Lot 19, this is coming from a neighbor who couldn't make it today because I did not see it done so he wanted for me to pass it along. (Jeff Stinger) he is on the lot next to mine (Lot 17). He said that he saw anywhere from 3 to 4 oaks buried in Lot 19 when that hill was being graded, and again, that is from Jeff Stinger, I did not see that, but he asked me to convey that also. I do not know what kind of plans there are for Lot 19 and how that will affect my edge of my property there, I'm not sure of what the plans are because my garage and then I have a slope down to Lot 19 and I'm not sure what is going to be done there. Cliff O.K. You were going to be addressing his then too. Gerry Smith - I don't know if this is the time to rebuttable, but it was your neighbor Stinger that came over and got the cat and paid him to do the work. Are you aware of that Jim? Page 8 . Jim - I talked to Jeff on that because you had mentioned that to me. Jeff told me that the cat was on my lot had already cleaned the fill up, and had already taken off the top soil back by my oaks. He thought that maybe I had asked you to do that. He figured that as long as the cat is back there taking dirt off my land , he was going to ask him if he could take a little bit of that hill. Gerry - We know where the property lines was back there on your lot, and he came over and got the cat and.said I'll pay you to do this. Jim - The question is were you on my lot taken dirt of before he asked?? Gerry - No! But anyway, this is something you and I will have to work out because you know with him...as he came over and got the cat. You'll have to discuss that with him. Jim - He disagrees with that. He says the cat had already taken dirt off my property. . Cliff - A lot of .these issues will probably be pursued through a civil matter. It looks like Jerry that part of this erosion or 4 to 1 slopes is also addressing into his property. I think to achieve the 4 to 1 slope you had to go back onto his property, it looks as though there is new soil plans for that. If you want to take a look at it here, because in order to achieve this. Jim - Even if he had called the cat over and you wanted to cross my lot. Jerry - And I should not have done it. Jim - Did the cat guy forget to lift his blade or what? Why did he cut within inches of my oak trees?? I have pictures to prove it. That is my question and I'm not saying Jeff is right or your right. Someone has to take care of it. It is not my responsibility. Everything was fine, graded, and approved until you came back and screwed up the whole back yard and took away a lot of good soil. Cliff - Gerry what are you going to be doing then for Lot 19? Gerry - What are we going to be doing as far as achieving the 4 to 1 slope. Does it show a retaining wall on there and does it show that were going to have to encroach on his property in order to achieve it? I don't remember Lot 19. Steve - Why don't you come up and take a look at it Gerry. Gerry - I just don't remember how were going to achieve it. Here's where the house it going to sit. This lot and the guy that bought this lot is not here, and he has seen this retaining wall so what we do here... we got a . drainage easement going through here...that is all I remember. Cliff - O.K. your showing a retaining wall here...this is silt fence...that is a diversion dike, but this is a retaining wall. . . . Page 9 Gerry - The guy that bought this lot has studied this and he knows what he is going to do. Cliff - O.K. we have a retaining wall here...also here...and then it is also showing proposed existing elevations. Gerry - If they cut on your property Jim, you and I are going to go over there and take a look at it. If they took some top soil out of there, we are going to replace it. Jim - The thing is that they have already taking many feet of top soil off there when you went out there without permission three days after I closed. Jim, they have already took a whole bunch out - I have got pictures right here that shows the cat tracks, shows cutting along the ruts, it shows ruts exposed. The problem is already there, it is not if they come back, they just didn't get in the corner, they got the whole lot. Gerry - You and I are going to take a look at it even if we have to haul dirt back up there to accomplish what has to be accomplished and even plant some trees to do it. I f they went over on our property, I want Stinger there because he is the guy that came and got the cat. I wasn't around when he came and got the cat and he was the guy that came and asked him to do this work. 1'11 let you argue with Jeff because I heard a different story there. Steve - Please hold it down a little bit. Jim - You were there when they were on my lot because I came back and spoke to you and I asked you what you were doing and you really didn't have an answer for me at that point. You did say something about my neighbor, but you didn't explain why you were taking dirt and why you were going to kill my trees. Jerry - Lets go back up there and take a look at it. taken out of there were going to fix it. If there was dirt Larry Gloe - Would that help the situation any. Like I mentioned it to you before if you went back on my property and blended it back down (lot 19). Gerry - Lets take a look at it...so far we have stayed off your property. Larry - I agree, I know that. Gerry - If it helps we'll work something out. problems, I want to solve them. I'm not here to create Larry - I was talking even 10 ft. back or 15 ft. back you can blend in. That you could drop 4 ft. by the time you got to my lot line that would create a lot less problem, I think. Cliff - At this time what we have is an approve plan right now any deviation, alteration or changes, I need them in a plan because in order to do any excavating anything over a 100 sq. ft. and a foot deep requires a permit. . . . Page 10 Steve Rohlf - The City is going to be pursuing corrections to make sure that requiring things to be done to eliminate the problems. You may well be advised Jim, (especially you Jim) for an example, you may want to talk to your own attorney about your trees and that sort of situation. We are not going to guarantee the City is going to get into that one...you may want to pursue that on your own. Jim - I just want to make sure I understand, is my lot involved at all in what is being address here because they may have to come on there. Steve - Are these existing slopes or corrected slopes? Cliff - Those are existing slopes. Steve - If they went on his lot they should expand the plans to expand this. Cliff - He is showing a 4 to 1 slope on there right now, I feel if Gerry went in on your property and took your soil that would be between you and Gerry. What I'm looking for is erosion and one of the things Jim, this lot 19 next to yours is the biggest thing on there is if this is going to be compatible with your property. If Jerry did take soils off it is going to be between you and Gerry. Steve - If he had gone on your property and took dirt off to where it left a cliff then we would want it addressed here because it would be contrary to the ordinance. If he trespassed on your property and took dirt, he would be well advised to contact your attorney and pursue civilly. Cliff - Were there trees buried on that property, Gerry (Lot 19). Gerry, I don't know, there may have been some brush. I'm not sure because I wasn't there all the time, but when we go in there and the guy does his excavating it won't take long to find out because their going to be coming in here for building permits soon. Cliff - I'd get a hold of Mr. Stinger then. Are there any other questions on the first one, Lot 14? Bill Oakers with Howard Bohanan Homes - When will we be able to get a permit on that. Cliff - What I can do on something like that.. what we need is an guarantee as far as its going to be done, especially on Lot 14, because the majori ty of this really addresses Lot 3 and Lot 14. We have a verbal agreement that Gerry is going to get it corrected. What I'm going to be requiring is that the corrections are done prior to October 1st and no Certificate of Occupancy is going to be issued, so its going to be up to you and Gerry as far as achieving it. I can issue a permit providing you follow the guidelines that has been illustrated here as far as elevation of the house, the types of house. As far as the silt fencing, it should be done prior to construction, so that all of this stuff is slowed up and taken care of. As far as the retaining walls, the top soil, the blanketing has to be done prior to a Certificate of Occupancy. Page 11 . Bill Oakers - Jerry, when are you going to get the silt fences up? If he gets the silt fences up tomorrow, can we get a building permit on Thursday? Cliff- Yes! Jerry - You want silt fences up before you give them a building permit? Cliff - We need to protect the existing houses around and also a guarantee because what is going to happen if we... Bill - I hear this word guarantee, what does that mean? Cliff - That is between you and Gerry because once the City... Bill - Not between Gerry and me, between you and Gerry. Your the one that is requiring the guarantee from Gerry. I want to know what that means so Gerry understands. Cliff - What the City is reqUIrlng is that this work be complete, and I don't know if there were any guarantees made, and to be honest I don't care. What the City is requiring is that all these things be done before a Certificate of Occupancy is issued. Bill - But he won't give me a permit, Gerry until these are all guaranteed. . Cliff - No, you get a permit, that is no problem, but what I'm saying right now is that if this house is built and the corrections are not made, you will not get a Certificate of Occupancy. Bill - So I can come in tomorrow mourning and get a building permit. Cliff - You bet! If you can show us the elevations which is illustrated here and the elevations on the retaining walls because each lot has to be corrected accordingly as to the lot. Steve - It may not make a lot of sense for you to get a building permit before that grading is done. What is your first name again? Bill - How comfortable do you feel getting a building permit with Jerry doing the corrections. Bill - I don't have a problem with Gerry. Steve - As long as you understand that, you could be setting here with a house that you can not close on because were not going to give you a Certificate of Occupancy until it is accomplished. Bill - So Gerry you will get the silt fences up this week so we can get going right a way. . Gerry - We will get them up right a way. Bill - So you need from us a survey reflecting the elevations shown there. As I see it is a split entry house, is that correct? . . . Page 12 Cliff - That is correct. As far as the split entry, I don't care as long as these elevations are met. You can put slab on grade as far as I care as long as these elevations are made. Steve - Your survey should reflect the appropriate silt fences and retaining walls too, all of the corrections as shown on this plan approved. Cliff - Because it is going to be part of your building permit. Steve - That pu ts it back on you if he doesn't do it, tha t you will accomplish it. Cliff - That is what I'm saying, if you want to start this, I have no problem with it. All I want is for you two to figure out who is going to be doing it. Steve - These are the corrections so if he doesn't do it we don't want to hear from you crying that he didn't. Bill - You haven't heard me crying yet, so lets go on. Steve - Lets go on!! Ron Black representing Marlene Brown - What is planned for Marlene's place? Start with how high are these walls going to be along on the south side. Cliff - Gerry, why don't you come up here and show us what your going to be doing. Gerry - There is a retaining wall going from here to here - and we will need to get behind this retaining wall and put dirt behind it. O.K...so it will probably in my estimation be from the property line. It would be about 12 feet. I've got a surveyor coming. Marlene - 12 ft. where? Gerry - on our property here...here is your house sitting right here. Cliff - Its shown right on the property line. Gerry - So they will get behind that retaining wall and they will ????? it. There is one retaining wall here, and it looks to me like its set back of your house. It starts out here.. . maybe there is some way I can work something out with you as I don't like the idea of a retaining wall coming out in front of your house. Maybe we can blend these together or something or work together on this and start the retaining wall back here somewhere, but were going to bring it all the way back up. Heres a retaining wall it shows...looks like it comes up this far right to here. Cliff- That might be difficult with a tuck-under garage to bring this retaining wall back any further. I was shown an elevation of a basement garage floor of 963 ft. Were already 3 ft. higher than what the street is and then with 11 courses running up and to get proper... . . . Page 13 Gerry - It might have to come out there then. This is where it starts. Marlene - How high are these walls? Gerry - This is 4 feet. What were going to do is put 3 inches of top soil on it, seed it, blanket it and plant trees right here. Marlene - I'm not satisfied with this. Gerry - What are you looking for back here? Marlene - You know how high this hill is and it drops off like this. Your not talking about coming back up to meet it at all. Gerry - Coming back where? Marlene - To meet that hill. You have to either take that hill down or you have to bring this back up. We've got a hill like this and trees that high. Ron Black - The whole hill is scalped off here on this side. I'm wondering what is going to happen from here all away around here. Gerry - There is a stake right here and what we found out is the surveyor that staked this and is elected to no man's land, and it is not your fault. We got the surveyor involved in this thing because it was staked wrong. I'm just telling you this because that is the problem that we run into. Were going to admit right now that we did trespass on there, but it was because it was staked wrong and there was an iron set wrong on the back side of your property. When we had a new surveyor come in - he found that this was a no man's land. It was staked wrong. He had the irons all in the wrong place. We have had a new surveyor come in and we have put the irons where they are suppose to be. Marlene - You can just come in and change the irons to where their suppose to be. Gerry - Well they were wrong. Marlene - How do I know that? Gerry - Were going to have go back in and fix it. Ron Black - That is the ultimate question here - what is going to happen on the back side of Marlene's place? Gerry - What we plan on doing, and I have been leaving cards in your door, trying to figure out something. Marlene - You left one card and I called you. Steve - It appears that these elevations do not go onto Marlene's property, so you can see how that ties in. It probably should be addressed on this plan. Cliff agreed. . . . Page 14 Gerry - We want to do what's right for her property on the back side. What we were planning to do is put 3 inches of top soil, tie it all together, plant trees and shrubs back there, and fix it. Marlene - You can't match what was there. I'm talking about blending it in now to the rest of the property. Gerry - Isn't there a way we can go back up there with a landscape architects with you. Marlene - I want pictures to see what it looks like as I don't understand that. Gerry - Why don't we get a landscape archi tect to come back and work wi th you and let him come up with something you want. Ron Black - This business of a wall along here is going to be bad news, just a big ribbon of an eyesore running through there. When you go to drive to the north it exposes the whole south side of this house where it was all once shrubs, trees and woods. That is the problem I have with it. Is there going to be a wall here then too. Steve - Shouldn't these plans address this end of Marlene's and Larry's as far as finish contour? Cliff - I wasn't going to address it because it was this area where he has cut off as it was a hillside and 4 to 1 slope. He more or less went up to Marlene's property. I think it probably should be addressed through Marlene and Ron Black. Were looking for a 4 to 1 slope on it. I don't know how much further we can push that. Steve - The only thing is without doing anything here it is hard to tell if this one is into this. What is the contours here - do they match to this? Cliff - Yes, I see what your saying. These are existing. Same as Larry's too! These are existing and it drops down lots further and thats the reason for this retaining wall and what they were going to do is put the gradual out this way. Marlene's sits like this - and the rest will come like this with a retaining wall holding up these soils here. Ron Black - The retaining wall is still bad news. Gerry - I think these are things that we can work with the landscaper to see what we can come up with. Marlene ~ Anything that you happen to do here affects me, and I want you to know that I do not like this. Ron - Is there a way to grade this off so we that it slopes nice and all of that sort of thing without having a great big wall running right along here. So that is what we would object too. Steve is it safe to say that if you guys can come up with something else, revise the plan then we will review it to make sure it meets his standards. . . . Page 15 This meets City standards it may not satisfy you - but it meets City standards - Anything that you guys come up with for any thing different we would want to review it again. Cliff - that is correct. Steve - So if you can get together and come up with something different, revise the plan, Cliff will look at it again. Cliff - It does address your lot, but what he is showing me right now is everything is on this property and it meets the ordinance as far as our slopes etc. and also he brought in a civil engineer for the retaining wall. He is addressing what the ordinance has to say. He probably should address this here - but I don't know what the slope is. TAPE I SIDE II Cliff - recorded along with this top soil and so forth. I am not sure, if I would have given the permission or not - but I think Mr. Corman has to be informed of what took place. Cliff - Lot 5 and 6, Deerfield 4th - Any owners here? Lot 5 and 6 is basically showing the retaining walls also, 4 to 1 slopes. He is also showing the 3 to 1 slopes past that. The way I measured it out its showing 4 to 1 slopes or closer to 4 to 1. The biggest thing on there if we don't disturb the vegetational growth that is already there, I think were going to be better off as far as our man-made products being put on there, but he is showing a nice 4 to 1 on there - silt fencing, diversion fencing. Steve Rohlf - Jerry do you own 5 and 6 yet? Jerry - Yes - Terry Hartman is the builder of H. E. Homes, he's Lot 4 - you own Lot 5..Lot 6 is still a hole. Cliff - Lot 5 is that the lot you just put the retaining wall on? Scott Wold - That is the one you inspected last month. Cliff - Lot 6 is still a hole. Who owns that one? Jerry - We do. Steve - So your responsible totally for the corrections on Lot 6. Jerry - Yes 6 and 9 is a hole - those two are left. Scott Wold/S. W. Wold Construction - I built the house on Lot 5 and Lot 7, Block 1. Cliff - Have you taken a look at what is on Lot 7 then as far as corrections? Page 16 . Scott - Yes, I built up a retaining wall?????????????????? Cliff - Are you going to do these corrections then? Scott - I haven't really talked to him about it. Were going to get it worked out one way or another. I got the fill there. Cliff - You have any feeling on this Gerry, as far as the corrections? Gerry - No we will work it out...we have agreed on certain things, so Scott and I will work it out. Cliff - Basically, that will be through the permit process and will have to be done by October. Scott - I have already received the 10 day temporary - I have 10 days to perform on it. Cliff - Lot 8? Gerry - That is Howard Bohanan...this is the future homeowner. Cliff - O.K. He is showing a 4 to 1 slope here going into the trees. . George Vojta - How far back off the back of the homes does it start to drop? Cliff - He is showing about 10 ft. George - That is not correct. Step up here please. Steve - You mean the existing drop or the proposed. George - It should go back at least 15 feet and then start to drop. Bill -You don't have a new one here Cliff. These are the approved ones? Cliff - Who is going to be putting a retaining wall in here. Your going to be putting this in? Bill - Gerry and I...Gerry and I have come to terms on that. Cliff - I'm going to need a copy of this. Jerry, did you bring a plat or layout? Cliff - he has got one right here, Gerry. This is the only copy I have. Gerry - Do you need another copy? Cliff - Yes, otherwise I can just make a copy of lot 8. . Steve - Again Gerry, any changes that we have got up here, we want to see a plan of it. These are not official until they have been approved. Do you have an engineering scale? Cliff - Its showing a proposed concrete retaining wall, 4 to 1 slopes. Page 17 . Gerry, I think he has two retaining walls. Cliff - Were showing about 12 ft. The retaining wall must be about ????? Then 4 to 1 slopes for the first one. George - My main concern is how far from the back of the home before the wall can be poured that starts to slope off? Scott - It slopes right from the house, but the wall is about 20 feet. George - That is not really correct. Cliff - the first wall is showing about 37 feet from the house - that is a 4 to 1 slope running down. Here George which you have to understand is that about from 10 feet from the back (this is from the bottom of your house to here) it drops about 2 feet. George - That is too much. That is what they require. George - I need a level area behind my home and then it can start to drop off. My main concern is my three children, and the way it is now it is dangerous. That is why all these proposals are being made. Also, I need to know how high are these walls? 4 feet - . Steve - A 4 to 1 slope isn't overly steep. It is not dangerous to children that is why were requiring that. You may want less than that, but you do want some pitch away from your house. George - I agree. Cliff - 4 to 1 is about like so. George - O.K. that is fine. The wall from the back of the house from here you say is about 38 feet. What is it from here to here approximately... about 30 feet. So you'll have between 30 and 38 ft. and then it will drop 4 feet. What do I read here from here? Cliff - 4 ft. on the first wall, and 4 ft. on the second wall also. Both the walls are 4 feet. How far from wall to wall. Were showing about 8 ft. George - My home is the tallest home here, so if this is all fill here where is the drainage going to run? Cliff - That is part of the requirements. I have a letter here...he gave me plans for these, but showed nothing for erosion. Part of the requirements on this are the 4 to 1 slopes and again the 3 inches of top soil, blanketing, and also the highway mix, etc. Once you achieve the 4 to 1 than we can maintain it with that type of erosion control. . George - This lot to the south of me is empty (#9), there is a major problem right in the corner here and right along side my service door that is washing away. Cliff - Gerry are you the owner of Lot 9? . . . Page 18 Gerry indicated yes. Cliff - Were showing a retaining wall here, but with Lot 9 itself, he still has 1 to 1 slopes on the sides, and he also having an erosion control problem coming off his garage. Gerry - I thing what were going to do there is put an erosion control completely around that so that on the property line will have erosion control on the property line. George - Consisting of what? Gerry - There will be a regular erosion control. Cliff - What we have is steeper than 4 to 1 slope off those. How are we going to address that? Gerry - That is eventually going to be filled soon as we can scrounge up some dirt somewhere. Cliff - In other words Gerry you saying your going to fill this area so its ??? Gerry - We've come up to the property line and then its pretty steep so what were going to do is put silt fence on the property line until we fill that in. Cliff - When are going to be filling that lot in? Gerry - As soon as we can get some dirt were going to start filling it in. Were going to fill in Both Lot 9 and 6. Both of those will be filled in. Cliff - What we have is still a problem. The reason why were addressing this is because this is steeper than 4 to 1, and the same thing would apply with these sides here and also Lot 10. Steve - Shouldn't the plans be revised to reflect all that then. Cliff - Yes - because its showing a proposed and that elevation shouldn't be achieved to eliminate the 4 to 1 because of all this should be working together. George - This has been filled in twice already and the erosion that is created is almost to the pad coming out of my service door, and it is roughly 4 ft. wide, 6 ft. deep and the one on my southeast corner has got to be 6 ft. wide and 8 ft. deep. I know that a silt fence is not going to correct that. Cliff - No it isn't. Part of the requirements is that we have to achieve that so we don't have the erosion coming off there. Especially since we have the 95% compaction for the house, which is great, but we don't have anything there that is going to retain that soils for that compaction. What he is saying that if were getting erosion like that we don't have any footing depth there anymore as far as protection from frost. . . . Page 19 Gerry - Let me take a look at that and come back after I've met with ?????? who drew these plans and see what he comes up with for a recommendation. Cliff - Basically on this here, if your going to be filling this, it will probably be a good time at this point to fill it to get the 4 to 1 and still achieve both worlds here too. Gerry - Were going to fill both of Lot 9 and 6. Were trying to get the dirt from Outlot A. That's why we came in with this. Bill, I understand and this is what you using - you want to see this 996 becomes something like this and this 994 something like that. Is that what I hear you saying? Cliff, What he is proposing is your 996 running up all the way through these lots because in order for all this to work to eliminate your 1 to 1 slopes on the side, something has to be done here and something has to be done to retain this soil. Bill - That is what I'm saying, you want this to come across all the way to here instead of back like this. Is that what I hear you saying? Cliff - No, this is fine as far as these swales in here, but he doesn't have it right now. Bill - So what your saying is that these are not 996 right now, it is probably 980. Cliff, Yes. Because everything drops off here. That is what you are seeing George is the 888. Cliff - If he can achieve the 4 to 1 at this point going into that lot, I guess I would not have any problem. If this is shown as proposed as a 996 and a 994 here, which means he is going to have to put in that 6 or 8 feet whatever is missing, then that is O.K? Cliff - If he brings the fill in there, and also with the fill goes back to the erosion control as illustrated on the drawings. Bill - The plan is O.K. it is just that the plan hasn't been executed. Cliff - That is correct. Jerry - It seem to me that you need a certificate. George, I need occupancy as of June 27th. George - This has been a major issue. First of all, I need to know who is going to pay for these retaining walls because I have not been informed. Bill - It is none of your business, it is between Jerry and I. It is not your issue, your not paying for it. George, O.K. that is what I wanted to know. Also, I spoke with Cliff and he needed a bond. Were not going to close until the retaining wall is in. George, O.K. that is fine. There are so many corrections to be made, there are 27 more days in September. Page 20 . Right now George, there is a bid being made right now regarding the retaining wall. Gerry, in fact it should be done when we get back. The guy is over there doing it now. Bill - As soon as we get the dollar amount; Gerry, Howard and I will come to terms on how its going to be paid for, which is not your concern, and then as soon as we come to terms with that then will let the thing out and get going. Gerry - I think the next thing that needs to be addressed, I think we need to address those side slopes. I see the problem, they drop off on the south side. Cliff, you can do it one or two ways; if your going to fill that lot, go ahead and fill it with compaction and etc. Otherwise we need a 4 to 1 slope or a retaining walls along with the erosion control, and it is not just the back part, it is also the sides there to. Gerry - I think on the north side it is pretty good. George, on that corner here, that is pretty bad also. Gerry - is it! George, yes it is. Bill - As you can see George. this is 988, that is the top of this wall and his is at 988 here and it goes up to 989. . George - So these will all flow together? Bill - These two will flow together, then we got a wall...from the corner of your wall it comes back and around and over. As I see here, there's just a retaining wall to here on his lot. But these two are going to basically kiss each other. George - So what happens on Lot 9 then? Basically my lot is filled and then it is going to drop off. Gerry - Were going to be filling it as soon as we get approval from the City to take dirt out of Outlot A. Bill - That is going to be filled to reflect a maximum of 4 to 1 slope. Your not going to have the cliff there when its built. Cliff - As far as Outlot A, there may be problems with it and you should deal with Steve Rohlf after the meeting on that. What were looking for on these drawings for this home to close is your 4 to 1 slopes, erosion control around the whole perimeter, not just the back, because we still have a lot there that is empty. The silt that is already run down there, is there going to be anything done with that? Gerry - Is there silt that runs down there? . Cliff - All this fill has ended up down here and what we have done is kill all the growth. Were still c going to have a lot of the problem down there also. Gerry - Lets take a look at it. . . . Page 21 Cliff - Again each lot will require a permit for the corrections on these lots so we can maintain them and keep them addressed. George - So you will issue a temporary certificate. Cliff - I will not issue any home permits until the corrections are made. George - Where are the corrections going to start? Gerry - The first thing is with the retaining wall. Bill - Part of the nice feeling George, is that we want to have both retaining walls in and the things done before it closes so you can see what is done. That way we are not going to have a fight ten days from now. This is what the City has approved, and this is what were going to do. It meets the requirements to give you a Certificate of Occupancy, plus then Gerry, Howard and I do not have to fight about who is going to pay for it for the next 6 months. Mr. Dennison was concerned with lot 4, block 1, Deerfield 4th Addition. It is a house that is not complete although we just found some information about the under-pinning on the existing footings in one corner. Cliff - So we have 7, 6, 5 and 4. That must be the first house on there. Mr. Dennision - That's right! As a matter of fact siding is on and the roof, no concrete pour yet...in case that refreshes your memory Terry Zajac - I wasn't aware of that. Cliff - As far as the under-pinning. Mr. Dennison - I just found out about it this morning. Cliff - bad soils or? Mr. Dennison - some corrections was necessary and it was a poured foundation so the problem was not an extreme one but, none the less it was strongly recommended as though it was put on there. I thought it come from your office. Cliff - NO! Gerry - It came from Tim and me. They discovered it this morning. Cliff - On Lot 4 were still going off the permit process on that. Those were not as bad as what these are and they were not filled lots. We will address any fill that is brought around or any soil that has been taken off and that again is either through sodding, staking, or blanketing. We still have to maintain the erosion control on those lots. Darrell Lepper (Lot 11) I'm kind of curious what is going to happen to Lot 10? I live on Lot lion Carson Street. Half of my fill is in Lot 10 and down towards Dodge. What fill I put in there, I paid for, and now it is not there anymore. So I want to know what is going to happen?? For all the fill on the sides of my house and corner it is like a 8 ft. drop. There is Page 22 . such ravines in the fill that they put in there it is all going down to Dodge. Cliff - Who was the builder for your house? Darrell - Mn. Design and Construction. Cliff - Was this a filled lot? Darrell - No! Gerry - Very little fill in there. We put a lot of fill on Lot 12 as there was a hole there. Darrell - I was just wondering when Lot 12 is going to be taken care of so I can finish my yard. Jerry - Which one is Lot 12? Darrell - Lot 12 is an empty hole. Cliff - What he is showing again is a 4 to 1 slope, retaining walls and natural vegetation, also a retaining wall goin~ up on your property. Steve - Who does owns Lot 12, Gerry? . Gerry - I would have to look his name up, I don't remember. Steve - Are you doing the corrections on that Lot? Gerry - Were furnishing the fill and he will be doing his own retaining wall. Steve - Can you provide us with his name? Gerry - Sure will - Jody Fausted??? (Lot 12, Block 1) Cliff - I contacted her on that. Is she here? I guess not. She was unaware of the retaining walls. Again, this is something that will have to be addressed. One of the things, fill is great, but in order to retain that fill, were showing corrections on it. Gerry - Lot 12 is a vast improvement over what it was before we built yours. There was a big hole there when you bought it. Brad - I ended up burying four courses of block and throughout all this mess, I had to change from FHA to Conventional loan because of that lot. I just closed on my house and it cost me $2,000 more just because of the existing lot, which was suppose to be guaranteed to build on. It cost me more than $4,000 just to put a house on there. . Gerry - I didn',t deal with it...You didn't buy your lot from me, you bought it from a builder. Brad - No, I bought it from you. . . . Page 23 Gerry - I dealt with your builder. Brad - I'm the one who paid you for the lot. When we had,talked you said it was a guaranteed lot to build on. Instead I buried almost a five course basement below. Gerry - I think what we need to do is get together and lets do it within the next few days, you call me, I'll give you my card. Lets take a look at that and if there is a way that we can resolve the erosion, we'll do it right away. We'll try and figure out a way to do it. George - So lot 12 here, the new owner, is going to fill this retaining wall on the north side of his lot and the west side of the other one. Gerry - There not going to build for awhile. Brad - When he gets to here you guys are going to hook-up and bring it across the west end of mine to the other side. Gerry - When I talked to you, we were providing the fill. Brad - This is all going to have to be done before we can start, right?? Gerry - Were going to have to figure out a way to stop that from going down the bottom of the hill because Lisa is getting your dirt. Brad Brummer (Lot 13) Most of it is coming off Lot 12 and 14 because my footings and stuff and my basement was all in. If you can see the ruts, you can see 6 ft. ruts here and 6 ft. ruts over. You have to do something because I'm closing or I'm going to be moving into your basement. I started with this bullshit in May, and it is September and I'm no farther along than I was in May other than a $2,000 for dirt. Gerry - When you bought that lot was it a hole? It was a hole. Brad - From my understanding you have filled in all the other lots with your cost. Mine, I had to pay for it because you told me you wouldn't do that. So I paid $2,000 to have all my dirt hauled in. Gerry - I don't know if you needed much dirt. Brad - I had 8 hours of trucks hauling. $2,000 worth out of my pocket. Gerry - I just don't remember. Brad - I'll get my realtor and we can refresh everything. You fill all this in and compact it, I had to dig down four extra courses in order to make it work and I had to pay for my own dirt, and you paid for everyone elses' dirt. Gerry - We corrected those lots to make them salable. Brad - Because of your lot I had to go conventional. . . . Page 24 Brad - Your saying your correcting these lots so their salable to built a buildable lot, right? Then you have to haul in some more dirt and put in a retaining wall. Gerry - I told you we would. Are you going to put the wall in to. Gerry- I told you we were going to give you the dirt. I said, you were going to pay for the wall and you'll remember when I told you that. Brad - I did not agree to anything. I said, we'll have to get together. You said you were making these lots buildable and the City is saying this is what has to happen to make these lots buildable. That's what I need then, right? Gerry - Were going to bring in the dirt on that particular lot. Brad - You said you were going to make them buildable, right!! Gerry - I'm not saying were going to pay your retaining wall, I didn't say that. Brad - No we didn't discuss nothing Gerry, we discussed a lot of stuff. Lisa - Gerry, you have to put that wall up for me because it is all coming into my yard. Brad - Who is going to pay for all the trees that you guys bury putting in all that dirt? If I wanted a lot that didn't have any trees, I would have bought a $10,000 lot down the street, instead of $18,000 in the woods. Cliff, I think that is a concern too as far as Lot 25 when you look at it. The soils which you put up on the hill there is a majority of it down through their property (Lisa's Lot) ???? I think that is a big concern because you have taken away from the growth again, and also the trees. Gerry - I have gone over and seen her and we have to do something about the erosion coming down the hill because it ends up in her back yard (Lisa's). Lisa - I want you to take that dirt back out of there and put it back where it is suppose to be. It wasn't like that when we bought the property, it, was flat. Gerry - We didn't do anything in your back yard. Cliff - Just the soils that are coming down from Carson Street. Gerry - The soils are coming down from the lot backing up next to you. There coming down off that lot and coming down onto your lot. Cliff - What are you going to do as far as erosion on that lot? Gerry - I thought we had it worked out with Mr. Brummer. No, we did not have nothing worked out. . . . Page 25 Gerry - I guess we'll have to get together with him and try and figure something out. Cliff - That is the biggest thing on it as far as compliance with the ordinance, and that is one of the reasons for this meeting so we can talk back and forth to find out who is doing what. Because the corrections will have to be made. That area is a serious area because now the man made hills are steeper than 4 to 1. Were looking at 1 to 1 in a lot of the areas, no vegetation and Lot 25 has a legitimate concern because the soils which you provided on that hill are now down in her (Lisa) property~ and there could be a lot of damage. Gerry - I know that. Cliff - S~ as far as the agreement, it going to be between you and Gerry as far as the corrections on that. The City is requiring 4 to 1 slopes, and an erosion control plan. Brad - Were going to have to try and figure out how that is going to happen, but I'm not saying I'm going to pay for anything. Steve - We understand - I just want you to be aware of what is happening. Brad - He is aware of what has to be taken care of, and I'm aware of it and will have to work something out. ,Steve - Lisa as far as your trees, you may want to protect your own rights on that as far as damage to your trees. Lisa - My back yard is really bad because of the soils that come down. Steve - Were you aware of that, Cliff. Cliff, yes! Steve - Shouldn't the plan address that also. Lisa -it will keep running if it stays that way. Cliff - That was part of the process here as far as going to eliminate the erosion on it, and it should be addressed as far as the soils that are in there. As far as the City addressing it ..... Steve - The dirt that is already washed in to it. Lisa - It has already wrecked the grading on the sides of my house. Cliff - You mean from the soils that come down. Lisa - It is really bad. Cliff - I think this here should be addressed because what you have done has created the soils that have come down from the hill which has changed the drainage plan into her property. . . . Page 26 Gerry - It has, I know that. I'm aware of it. I know exactly what has happened. It has come right down rihgt on to her property. Lisa - What are you going to do about it? Steve - You really should address that in this plan then Gerry so there are no misunderstandings. Gerry - What I really want to do is bring it down to the property lines, change that swale on the property lines so the run-off comes down the property lines, and I can't swale it down the property lines to get the water to come down the hill. Let me see her lot. Her lot is here - see if these lot lines matched up we could swale it so this water would come down the property lines. Cliff - In other words Lisa was in compliance when we issued the Certificate of Occupancy because the drainage and everything worked. Steve - So the corrections here should be beyond those three lots and show how he is going to correct Lot 25, and 24. You need to revise your plan Gerry. Wouldn't you say Cliff. Cliff - Yes! Gerry - I know that is the problem. Were going to have divert that water and get it to go down the property lines down those easements. Cliff - As far as the soil that is in her property??? Gerry - Were going to have to figure out a way to get the soil out of there. Lisa - That is what you said months ago. I really want you to start going on this. You can't have all that sitting on top of my trees. Gerry - Lisa, you have my card - we'll get something going on that. It is a real tough one. I don't know how their going to do it...but we'll have to figure out something. Lisa - This should have been there before you put all that stuff up there??? There was no retaining all that sand. Why would that happen? Of course its going to run down hill. If there was something here that would have even stopped half of that from coming through my yard, I wouldn't have this huge mess...nothing was stopped...I have a beach for a back yard. Cliff - Realistically, if the erosion plan was already submitted prior to the filling of these lots, this wouldn't have happened. Jerry - O.K. that one is priority.. .we' 11 figure something out here in the next few days. Steve - Cliff do you agree that his plans should go beyond those three lots and address what is going on all the way around. Cliff, I don't believe that there has been that much fill that has gone down to Lot 24 and 26. . . . Page 27 Gerry - I've gone over and looked at it, and it is coming right down through there. Cliff - I have to get an approved plan on that before any "action is taken.. .on Lot 25. It has to follow along with the erosion????because now we have created a dike and putting these houses in jeopardy with water. Gerry - I hope to have the plans done by next week. Cliff - Next week by Wednesday - Gerry - you'll have a plan by next week. Cliff - 9/11. Lisa - You have to come and clean this out too and get it fixed. Steve - I've heard no agreement on who is doing all this, have you Cliff!! Gerry - I'll get together with these three homeowners right here...so people who own those lots.... I think there here right now. I just don't want to pay for fill that is already paid for and is all washed away. I had to rent a bobcat to do it once and I'm not going to do it again. Cliff - The biggest thing on it your going to have to get together with everyone concerned because this is a big concern for Lisa - because what is happening when all that soil comes down the hill, those trees are going to be dying... its going to be mess. You've created an area where her house could have some flooding affects. Steve - It also dumps into the City street from that point. Gerry - I know that. Gerry - Were going to have a plan for you by a week from today... and were going to get in there and hopefully get a retaining wall built across here. Steve - Cliff a week from today is 9/11. From Lot 11 on down - Gerry - I'm going to do Lot 12, 13 & 14. But mine just stays the same - Gerry - If we created a problem taking some of your dirt, we will replace it. 1m going to take a look at that. Cliff - So then they will both be addressed, Lots 25, 12, 13, 14. You agree to put a wall itself, and silt fencing. Brad - I'm just wondering why he is going to put one here and not continue on where I've lost all mine anyway...why not continue on with the retaining wall? Why should I spend more on a retaining wall when I have already spent $2,000 on fill that washed away, plus I have to pay for a retaining wall, plus I had to go extra blocks in the basement when it was suppose to be a guaranteed buildable lot. Can you answer all those concerns? Gerry - I'm not going to get into that. Brad - He is taken care of lots that doesn't even have house on there. What about the houses that are already existing that are a major problem. He has taken care of ones that even have house on them. Are you just going to let that slide by? . . . Page 28 Cliff - Gerry as far as the correcting of Lot 12 - are you going to be bringing his backup to the existing ones? Gerry - I will take a look at it to see where we are responsible and where we are not. The lots that we corrected, were going to take care of that problem. We didn't have anything to do with his lot. The lots that we corrected and the silt is going down into Lisa's back yard because of what we corrected. We have to take care of that. We will take of those lots (12, 13, & 14) or whatever they are because that is where the problem lies. Cliff - I think at this point between you and Gerry, as far as the fill, it is going to help you once he gets this to a 4 to 1 slope. As far as who is going to bring the fill in that is up to you and Gerry. Brad - That will be up to Gerry as I brought the fill in once. Gerry - You and I will get together and see how much of a problem it really is on your lot. Well look at it. LOT 20 Cliff, I addressed this lot with a memo to Gerry Smith. At this point it would not have to be addressed if your not digging into the hill and if your not creating or eliminating any vegetational growth. It really does not have to be addressed. Steve - The hill itself has trees and the natural vegetation that was there. Cliff - Any place where we do not cut off the vegetational growth or create a slope steeper than 4 to 1 we do not have to address those lots. Steve - I you don't create an erosion problem, why address it. Cliff - If you went in and took all the top soil off, then we would have to address it. Cliff - Is there any other questions? I think we hit most of the lots. I've heard comments on stumps being buried. I think were going to address those to. We have addressed Deerfield 3rd and 4th coming off of Baldwin Street and the cul-de-sac. I have not had connect with Pam Corman as far as the hi lIs on there, but that also has to be addressed. (the Woodwright House) . Gerry - I have not dealt with Pam Corman. All I did was go with the guy to the door who did the dirt work, and she asked to see him about cutting the hill down, and that is all I know. Cliff - While I was sending the memos out, I've had brief conversations with her. She was concerned with what took place on the hill, and that was about it. Gerry - The dirt man made some deal with her to cut that hill down. I did not get involved in that. . . . Page 29 Cliff - Who was your dirt man? Gerry - Metropolitan Dirt out of St. Cloud. Gerry - He dealt directly with her. Cliff - The way it sounds she talked to you. Cliff - Any other questions? Tom Cammeron - I've got a question on Lot 7, Block 3. What are your plans for the current grading plans on that lot. Cliff - He is showing 4 to 1 slopes, a dike coming off here to slow the erosion. Do you have an existing house at this time? Tom - Yes! The one that has the big mounds of dirt at the end. It is the first lot as you come down Dodge. Cliff - I'm not sure at this point - The majority of the soils I did a stop order on it. The majority of the soils are on private property and I couldn't address it. That is going to be up to you and Gerry and Bill S. property. Tom - So there is a stop order on it now. TAPE II SIDE I Gerry - So until the dirt man gets it worked out with Scherer were not going to do anything. I told him to stay out of there. Were not going to doing anything until Metropolitan Dirt gets the problem worked out with Scherer as he went over on his property and pushed some dirt over and he is going to get it worked out. Steve - And some trees. Gerry - He is going to get it worked out. Cliff - So at this point we could not address it. Once they get it corrected as far as the dirt and stuff, Gerry has agreed to, I don't know if he had a berm there or something in the trees?????? Tom - I was just wondering if the City had any requirements for it? Cliff - I put a stop order on it that basically pertained to all of this. At the time I thought it was a lot and after further investigation I found it was private property. That is all I know as I didn't push it any further. I just left the stop order on it until it can be resolved. Gerry - I see someone has been in there taking dirt out of there. There is a big gouge in there where people have been coming in and taking out dirt. We don't know who it is, but that is what is happening when you leave it left untouched, just left in its natural state. Dirt has been moved around in there, and someone has been in there taking some. Steve - Gerry are you aware of anyone hauling trees into Royal Oaks and burying them? Gerry - We have an area defined that is for burial. Steve - No you don't. Page 30 . Steve - I want to make a couple of things perfectly plain to you, Gerry, as long as this is being recorded. One is, that when you get a building permit that it addresses grading, so that when you do it prior, you did it without any permission whatsoever. Gerry - Whats that now. Steve - Grading - you can do grading on lots as part of the building permit issuance and it can be addressed at that time, for adding fill and stuff like this. Doing it prior to the building permi t is one of the reasons why you have so many problems, because it wasn't addressed period. Otherwise you would have been told not to do half the things that happen here. Also, this pond at the end of Royal Oaks (I want this on the record) so you can't say you never heard it. That pond is a designated water way protected by the Army Corps of Engineers. It looks like a grassy swamp, but it is protected. Any fill that goes in there without their permission, is illegal. They will prosecute so make sure you are careful dumping fill in there. Its the one right there Cliff, behind your office. I want that on record so he can't claim ignorance on that one. Also, I think, what the City did was give us a plan that is accessible on how to correct this. You can see how it is hard for us to sort through what agreement was made with who and who does it. Cliff - You bet! . Steve - So, somewhat you have to watch out for yourself also, and people with trees and stuff like that, I don't anticipate the City, if you have damage to your trees, pursuing that you may have to do that on your own also. Cliff - The biggest issues to on Lots 6, 7, 8, 9, & 10 - I just received a call from a gentlemen that owns lot 10 that there were a lot of trees that were buried underneath these soils that were brought in. I know, that on three of them right now there is a lot of trees in there. Before the retaining walls can be built those trees have to be removed otherwise these retaining walls are not going to do any good once those trees start decaying and the soils start falling down. Steve - As per the approval of Deerfield 3rd and 4th, trees can only be buried if part of the approval process through the plat in designated areas that are protected with easements. So any burying of trees on individual lots is prohibited. So that is something else that is on the record! Do not bury any trees in Deerfield 3rd or 4th or any place else in the City, unless you have an approved location. That is something that comes back to haunt somebody ten years later when they put up a garage upon it, no one knows that it is there. Gerry - I'm not aware of any trees being buried. Steve - I guess one guy had pictures of it. pictures. Someone indicated they had . Gerry - For years and years (3 years) we have had a burial area up in the park. Now were burying stuff down in the back of the lot down in Royal Oaks as we have no place to get rid of the stuff. There is a burial area in Royal Oaks. Steve - Was that approved through the platting process, Gerry? . . . Page 31 Gerry - We had an area that was planned for first homes????? Steve - Is it in that swampy area? Gerry - Yes, its way in the back. Steve - Be advised to quit doing that immediately because that is a designated water way by the Army Corps of Engineers and protected. Gerry - This is not in the easement it is on private property. Steve - If it is in that swamp it is protected one way or another, unless you know for sure it is outside that swamp. The Army Corps of Engineers is looking into it. Also the piles of fill behind your office does not go into that swamp there either, or the Corps of Engineers will come down on you. They are now aware of the filling that has been taken place in there - that is a headwater that they do have designated as protected. Again, before you doing anything, it eliminates a lot of problems if you ask first because then you know what regulations affect what. So be advised that any fill like this takes a permit of some sort either through the building permit process. Gerry - My office and your office are real close - Steve - That is why it is not hard for you to give us a call to find out what is going on. Gerry - We have been hauling dirt out of that hill for how many years. All of a sudden the crap hits the fan because were hauling dirt. I realize now, that we should have left the hill, corrected the hill, not hauled any dirt out of there, and just corrected it and left it. I realize that now, but if there was a problem hauling it, we have been hauling dirt out of there for how many years, Steve? Steve - I don't want to get into a debate here, but what hill are you talking about hauling off there? Gerry - The hill in Deerfield 3rd - The problem here that we have got right now with lots 3 ????? Steve - As far as I know, this started in July except for one place you claimed ignorance that you never hauled any dirt on the other side of Larry Gloes. Otherwise, Gerry, I have no knowledge you hauling....... Gerry - We didn't - someone came in and took out a lot of dirt there, we still don't know who did it. Steve - As far as I know, there has been no other dirt hauled out of that area until July. Is that the way you understand it, Cliff!! Cliff - That is correct. Steve - Excuse my language - but I don't know what the hell your talking about. Page 32 . Gerry - Lot 3, 4 and 5 in Deerfield 3rd Steve - Can you show me those, Cliff. Gerry - Is where we got our dirt from here in Deerfield 3rd, I said. We got all of our dirt for the whole project, Deerfield 3rd and Deerfield 4th from this hill. Cliff - You created this hill three years ago, I went to court on this one, and that hill was still there on the retaining wall for Woodwright. I was on there last winter, and this hill was all here. Gerry - No! No! There has been dirt taken out of here since we started Deerfield 3rd. This is where we got our dirt. Cliff - So you have been changing the drainage for the last three years??? Gerry - Whenever someone needed dirt...50 loads...20 loads it came right out of here. This dirt was ???? whatever. That hill was called - had a name. It was a steep hill and what I'm saying to you is that everybody knows that whey they needed dirt they got it out of here. That is where the dirt is coming from. All of a sudden, stop hauling dirt. It was a surprise to me! ! . Steve - Let me explain something to you Gerry. As far as any knowledge I have, July is when that dirt started to be hauled out of there. If dirt has been hauled out of there for years, under what permission were you hauling dirt out. Gerry - Then someone should of said something!! Steve - You mean its O.K. if you do something wrong as long as no one says anything. Gerry - If you knew.... Steve - I did not have any knowledge of you doing that, Gerry. Gerry - The building inspectors are out there every day. If there was something wrong, you guys would have known if we were hauling dirt out of that hill. Steve - Does anybody have any knowledge of dirt being hauled out of that area prior to July?? Gerry - Of course, there was a big hole in the hill. Steve - There is no hole there that I can recall. Gerry - Of course there was. Steve - That is enough of that debate - you did it. . Cliff - Whether it has been going on for three years or three days.... Steve - Whether it happened three days ago, you still needed approval, and just because no one came up and said "Gee Gerry, your doing something wrong" . . . Page 33 doesn't make it right. I don't recall any dirt being removed out of there before July. Gerry - All I'm saying were trying to remove an eyesore from in the project. Steve I think you've created one hell of an eyesore in that project, Gerry. Cliff - You bet!! Gerry - I tell you what, since we've corrected it, the people that bought the lots...we sold them right away. The lots were sold with the idea that they would be corrected. The people are here...they were here. You couldn't sell them before, you couldn't give them away, and now their sold and there is going to be houses going up. Rochelle has one going up. Mr. Fine Line is here...he is trying to get a permit. Mr. RP Homes is here...he is putting a tuck-under. We got three lots that suddenly became salable. So your saying we created a problem. Lisa - You did because you built those up and ruined my yard. Cliff - The nice thing about it... I commend you...you did great...you sold it - but there is still a permit process and there is also erosion control that has to be achieved. Whenever you move this type of soil and open that type of area, common sense is going to show up somewhere to show you that your going to have an erosion control problem coming down that hill... something had of have done. Gerry - You know something, we intended to make it a nicer looking area than it was, and we still will. Just give us a Ii ttle break here and let us fix. We are going to put 3 inches of top soil. We are going to seed it. We are going to put blanket on it. Were going to plant trees on it. If we can and the people who will let us put retaining walls, and want retaining walls, we will do it. The people who do not want a retaining wall, we will have to try and come up with some other way. Were not hard to get along wi th. I f we made a mistake... good God... someone should have picked up a phone and said "Gerry Stop" I would have stopped. Steve - The City's desire is that you correct it too. We went out there and stopped it. Cliff - Earlier in the morning, I put a stop order, a verbal stop order, you said at that point you would stop. Steve - Which I was witness to. Cliff - I went out there at 3: 30 in the afternoon, I had to stop your excavators again. Gerry - They were not hauling dirt? Steve - Yes, they were Gerry. Cliff - Fifteen days later your over on another lot doing the same thing again. . . . Page 34 Gerry - Wait a minute now...there has been no dirt hauled out of that hill. Cliff - This one.. Gerry - Yes! No dirt has been hauled out of there. Cliff- since that day. Gerry - No way! Because they were told to stop. Cliff - Steve and I were along on the first meeting you set, along with your excavator, this will be shut down right now. At 3:30 p.m. I was out there with Terry Maurer, City Engineer, that same day your excavator, the owner of the company, was in the backhoe filling trucks. He told me, he says "Well, I did not know we had to stoptl. When I went up on the hill, I told you at that time to...I shut your excavator down. Thirteen days later I had to put a stop order on you because you were doing the same thing. Gerry - As far as I know, I didn't get the stop order delivered immediately, It was delivered to someone else. I heard about this when I c8$e back into town. Cliff - O.K. you contacted me that same day so you were aware of the stop order. Gerry But it was not delivered to me, but that is besides the point. When I got that stop order, those trucks stopped. Cliff - That is correct! Gerry - There is absolutely no way that in this hill, where they were taking dirt, there was anymore dirt hauled, because, I know there wasn't. There was no more dirt hauled. Cliff - On July 10th it was the last day that dirt was hauled, but the last final time of hauling was around 3:30 p.m in the afternoon. Steve - It was witnessed. Cliff - yes, it was witnessed. Steve - Gerry, we really don't care about your promises. We don't care about what you say happened, or did not happen. What we care about is that this get corrected. Here is your golden opportunity to say something and follow through on it. Gerry - You have not heard me say we are not going to do it. Steve - This is very serious...extremely serious, and God help you, I hope you do correct it and you are sincere, because we do not plan on backing down on this one a bit. You will correct it. Gerry - We are going to correct it. It was my intention to make it a nicer looking project from the way it looked before. . . . . . Page 35 Cliff - Wouldn't it have been easier to bring it in before it started, so we knew. Especially with this...you think of a change in a development. Gerry - Here is the thing, fellows, I'm not an expert, I rely on people that I have used for years. We went over this stuff with Metropolitan Dirt has been doing this stuff for years and years for me. I pay him $250,000 a year to do my dirt work. I rely on those people. I said guys, I want these lots to be corrected, I want it to look good because were going to make these lots salable, I know this is an eyesore. Your saying you don't remember what that hill looked like before, fellows!! Gerry - There was a big hole gouged in that hill and it look like heck...I wish the people were here that bought those lots. Cliff - Who created the hole in there? Gerry - There has been dirt that has been hauled out of there for three years. All the lot corrections that were corrected in Deerfield 3rd and 4th that is where the dirt came from, is out of that hill, and when you shut me down I couldn't believe it. Because where are we going to get dirt from. Steve - The same place I got dirt when I built my house, the gravel pit. You don't create a gravel pit in the middle of a residential zone, Gerry. Don't give me that "holier than thou" attitude because to create a gravel pit in a residential zone there is no justification. Gerry - I'm not going to say anymore than because I'm not going to create a "holier than thou" attitude. I say Steve, if there was a problem.. .God, have I have been an ass hole... excuse me... have I ever been hard to deal with? Off the record...Am I hard to deal with, Steve? Am I that much of a jerk that I don't deal and want to work with you. Cliff - Anyone want to comment? Gerry - Yes, do you think I am? Cliff - I'm just asking if anyone wanted to comment. Gerry - Yes, I want to know if I'm a jerk and don't live up to what I say I'm going to do. George Vojta - The first time J met you Gerry, I was holding my son, you ran over to me like a raving maniac...you were 2 inches from my face...you were screaming in my face swearing while me and my wife and our three children were there...I didn't even know who you were. Gerry - Do you know what you did? George - No! I bought a lot that is what I did. Gerry - You were stopping my trucks and telling them that I want dirt here, I want dirt here and here. Who is paying the bill?? I'm sorry I did that. I do apologize for that because that was not right. I should of went to your builder. That is what I should have done, but you don't stop all . . . Page 36 those trucks that are lining up and you tell them you dump here, and you dump here. George - Gerry you weren't there. Gerry - I'm sorry, but I apologize. I apologize a thousand times to you, there was a mistake. Cliff - O.K. lets get back...We got the corrections, and Gerry is going to be correcting it, and why don't we go from there. Gerry - I'm sorry fellows, that I created the City a problem. that... . I created a problem because I know these people called you. I'm going to take care of you...I told you that I would. I know Lisa, Cliff - Actually none of these people called me. After the stop order and stuff, and after reviewing what is taking place... I met them through the process... I've never met Lisa before. I left a notice on her door for this meeting, and I don't think I've ever met you... I've talked to you a couple times on the phone. Steve - We were amazed at the amount of dirt taken out of there without anyone calling us. We found out round-about, someone called and complained about the noise. Duane Kropuenske - I think part of the problem of not calling you is... I drove by there to...He is right...There was a lot of dirt taken out at the end of the cul-de-sac when you look at that hill from the west, (Steve - he's talking from the east) but the problem is when I drive by there for a year looking at that, I just make an assumption that someone has got a permit to do it, because you don't think anyone is out there whittling away at this hill without a permit. That is probably why a lot of people saw the hill disappearing from the east even, as they made an assumption...the citizens make an assumption well the contractors is out there doing it, he has probably got permission from the Ci ty. . . taken in the drainage plan and that type of thing. I think that is probably why no body called before so much dirt disappears. The average citizen just assumes that the proper process it taken place. I think that explains some of why you don't get phone calls sooner. Gerry - The bottom line here is that I think that there was good intentions of making a nicer looking project out of it than it was, and because we had hills and valleys, lots that were gouged into people took dirt out of them...they would come in there and they would keep taking dirt like next to you. We don't even know who took the dirt out of that lot because we came back after three or four days... someone came in there and took a bunch of dirt out of there. Jim - It was the same people who took dirt off my lot, when you were out there. Gerry - That was done month's ago... that the lot next to you that was corrected. Page 37 . Jim - When I moved in there was a cliff..that dirt was all gone, they had a cliff there, and then when I came...it was like the first week in July...I came back and the cat was taken dirt off my lot...someone had taken all that dirt out of there...that was a long time ago...it looked like the same cat. Gerry - You and I are going to get together because your neighbor came over and I wasn't there. I didn't tell them to take any dirt off your property. We were very careful not to. Jim - You were out there - I got pictures right here...your Bronco is parked right next to the bulldozer on the back of my lot. I can blow these up and we can look at the license number on your vehicle. Gerry - But still they were not pushing dirt off your lot. . Jim - It was already gone, Gerry. I got home that afternoon and the dirt was already gone. I came out there and said Gerry, pardon my French, "What the Hell is going on"? This is my lot, this is my dirt, it was already gone. I said, those trees are going to die, the roots are exposed. Larry Gloe left, he was there, he saw you out there. Matt Skinner saw you. I had three or four neighbors standing there when the guy was out there. They saw you drive up there, speaking to him. I'm not saying that you told him to cut that close to the trees. Don't tell me that you didn't know that he was up there taking dirt out of there. Gerry - It was your neighbor - this is why I want your neighbor involved in in this. Jim - That's fine - he wanted to be here, but he has to work because he said that is not the way it happened. You've treated be right in the past. We've had some other problems and you've treated me right...I have .no problem with that so I'm going on the assumption that your going to treat me right again and we can get this resolved. Gerry - Were going to get this resolved. Were not going to walk around living next door to each other.. . close by with each other.. . were not going to dodge the bullet...were going to fix it...and were not going to dodge any bullets here...were going to eat our mistake and fix it. Its not going to be that costly to fix mine anyway. Gerry - Whatever was done is going to be fixed...that is the way its going to be. Steve - I'm real glad to hear that. Gerry - I don't dodge bullets, we fix it. Steve - The City has every intention of following through on it, so I'm glad . you have that attitude. Gerry - Were not going to dodge any bullets - you will see that things are going to start happening real quick now. Now that I see, I made a mistake as far as not coming to you. It was an honest innocent mistake. I did not . . . Page 38 know I had to have a mInIng permit when we had been digging out of that hill for three years. That all of a sudden and especially you could have picked up that phone and said, Gerry, come in here right now and talk about it. I mean, God, if you can't communicate with the people that are doing work with you. If there is a problem and you can't communicate, then I have no business doing business with you. Steve - You mean on the City's side? Gerry - Yes! Steve - as soon as we found out you were digging, we met you out there, Gerry, remember? Cliff - In fact we called you up on the phone and we set up that meeting. Gerry - I tell you what fellows, I've learned a big lesson on this - I've never been in a project...l been doing this for 20 some years...I've never been in a project where we have had difficult lots, any more difficult than this. I've done business with many, many cities. These are difficult lots over here, and I think the mistake that was made is right from the very beginning...that the grading plans...your going to deny this, that the grading plans were never followed - We'll prove this that the grading plan was never followed because now we are doing our thing. You have been working me over and now I'm going to be doing some things to prove that whoever did this thing up there on top of the hill raised that street 3 ft. too high and there has been some serious errors made up there all the way down the line. Were going to prove that some things were done from the very beginning, that have never been right. That is why this project has taken so much dirt, because somebody screwed up!! Were not going to say who, and were going to find out, but someone made some serious mistakes that cost us a lot. Steve - We look forward to it Gerry. Cliff - I have to excuse myself. END!!!!!!!!!!! !