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02-22-1983 PC MIN o o o ELK RIVER PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING HELD AT THE ELK RIVER PUBLIC LIBRARY Tuesday, February 22, 1983 MEMBERS PRESENT: Chairman Tracy, Commissioners Pearce, Tralle, Ward and Wille Commissioners Hartman and Oster arrived at 7:40 p.m. STAFF PRESENT: Rick Breezee, Building and Zoning Administrator; Zack Johnson, City Planner; and Peter Beck, City Attorney. 1. Call Meeting to Order Chairman Tracy called the meeting to order at 7:33 p.m. 2. Consider Minutes of January 26, 1983 Planning Commission Meeting MOTION BY COMMISSIONER PEARCE, SECONDED BY COMMISSIONER TRALLE, TO ACCEPT THE MINUTES OF THE JANUARY 26, 1983 PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING AS PUBLISHED. THE MOTION PASSED 5-0. 3. Consider Agenda for February 22, 1983 Planning Commission meeting It was the general consensus of the Planning Commission to accept the Agenda as written for the February 22, 1983 PlannIng Commission meeting. 4. Consider Conditional Use Permit Renewal - Daniel Karst Jr. Daniel Karst was present for this request. Chairman Tracy indicated Mr. Karst first applied for a conditional use permit for a mobile home to be placed on his father's property and further indicated that Mr. Karst applied in June 1980; he therefore, fell under the old City Ordinances. Rick Breezee indicated that he spoke with the City Attorney regarding this matter. The City Attorney indicated that if a conditional use permit was granted and that person is still abiding by the conditions that were set at that time, then the City cannot deny a conditional use permit at this time. Commissioner Pearce inquired if a person applies for a renewal, will it fall under the old ordinance or new ordinance. Rick Breezee indicated it would fall under the ordinance in which it was granted. Commissioner Oster questioned the nonconformity of Mr. Karst's mobile home. Rick Breezee indicated that if a new resident opposed and if the person was still following the conditions set, it cannot be denied. Chairman Tracy asked staff if there was a 2-year time limit originally set on the conditional use permit in 1980. o o o Planning Commission Minutes February 22, 1983 Page Two Mr. Karst indicated that he was told when he came in for a renewal in 1982, that if there were no complaints at that time, there would be no problem for the re- newal. Commissioner Oster indicated he felt that Mr. Karst should be allowed to continue. Chairm~n Tracy indicated that it would be hard to apply new conditions and further indicated that if given no conditions, agreed that it would be hard to deny. Mr. Karst questioned regulations changing. Chairman Tracy indicated that in dealing with new stipulations, it could get con- tradictory. Commissioner Ward questioned the purpose of a conditional use permit. Discussion followed regarding nonconformities and grandfathering. Mr. Karst indicated he meets every requirement except the requirement that he must receive his major income from farming; his major source of income is not from farming. Commissioner Pearce asked what would happen if Mr. Karst moves out of his trailer. The City Attorney, Peter Beck, indicated that the conditional use runs with the property, not the person. If, however, the conditional use was discontinued for a year, it would then lapse. Chairman Tracy asked if we were to issue a conditional use, could we put a two-year time period as a condition on it. Rick Breezee explained Mr. Karst's conditional use permit and indicated that nothing has changed since June, 1980. The City Attorney indicated the nonconforming use section of the ordinance should apply. Commissioner Tralle asked Mr. Karst if he had any objections if the City would set a time stipulation. Mr. Karst indicated he had no objections. MOTION BY COMMISSIONERTRALLE, SECONDED'BY.COMMISSI8NEROST~R, _ TO- RENEW THE. CONDITION- ALUSE PERMIT FOR MR. DANIEL KARST JR. TO BE NON-TRANSFERABLE, TO BE REVIEWED IN TWO YEARS. THE MOTION PASSED 7-0. The motion was agreeable to Mr. Karst. Mr. Karst asked the Planning Commission if he changes nothing, will he be allowed to get another renewal. Chairman Tracy indicated that he would. o o ~ ~ Planning Commission Minutes February 22, 1983 Page Three 5. Consider Land Use and Zoning Map - Presentation by City Planner, Zack Johnson The City Planner, Zack Johnson, discussed the changes proposed on the zoning map and indicated the changes developed from concerns regarding the number of variances and conditional use permits. The areas in question are primarily near the old village limits. Some of the changes were the area by Proctor and Jackson, Upland (by Cretex) and a slight change in the industrial area, downtown. The City Planner questioned if there should be more higher density along Meadowvale and Upland, possibly going from I to M.D. which was discussed at the January Planning Commis- sion meeting. The City Planner felt that the Planning Commission should look how land should be best used for the City in the long run. Land use should be the question and not land owners. The City Planner discussed separating land uses. He indicated that streets are not a good buffer to separate zones and further indicated he would prefer putting back yards together. The City Planner indicated it was his feeling that this was a better separation of land uses. Commissioner Hartman asked if the City Council can stipulate barriers. The City Planner indicated under some conditions you can, but that our City does not address barriers. Rick Breezee stated that the ordinance can require buffers and screening between commercial , industrial areas and residential zones. The City Planner indicated the Planning Commission should not interpret what the City Attorney and he are saying; that the City should change because of problems that have arisen. The map should be updated, but not because someone wants a var- iance. The City Planner indicated that variances should not be easy to get - they should be hard to come by. Commissioner Pearce questioned if the area down by the Orono Dam was zone changed, would this be spot zoning. The City Planner indicated that if it was rezoned, it would be consistent with the land use plan. Chip Martin, a resident of the City, questioned spot zoning. Walter Piwowar indicated that there was a lot of commercial property possible in that area by the Orono Dam, if it was rezoned. Rick Breezee indicated that if the land use map shows M.R., and if a piece of commer- cial zoned property was put in there, that would be spot zoning. Commissioner Hartman discussed Zack Johnson's interpretation. o o o Planning Commission Minutes February 22, 1983 Page Four Commissioner Pearce indicated he would like to see the area by Upland (Cretex) zoned as the City Planner has shown the Planning Commission. Commissioner Tralle indicated he was more comfortable with using R-3 as a buffer in the Upland area. It was the general consensus of the Planning Commission to have the City Planner continue with the land use and zoning maps as presented. Discussion followed regarding the area by the Orono Dam from a land use standpoint. Commissioner Pearce indicated that if the City gets a request to rezone in that area to R-3, the City should possibly look~at a larger area. Mr. Frank Hasbrouck asked the Planning Commission how far the possible zone change would go in the Proctor/School Street area. Rick Breezee read the section of the City's Zoning Ordinance relating to buffering and the screening requirement. The City Planner indicated buffering would be handled through the site plan review. Rick Breezee discussed buffering, zones and setback problems that could occur. The City Planner indicated another zone change area discussed was the Plaisted area by Highway #169 which is now 1-2. It was the general consensus that this will be reviewed at the next meetirtg of the Planning Commission. 6. Consider Conditional Use Permit - Frank Hasbrouck Mr. Frank Hasbrouck was present for this request and indicated he intended to put up a pole building. Mr. Hasbrouck also indicated the rezoning of the Proctor/Jack- son/School area would be including his residence. Mr. Hasbrouck indicated he peri- odically repairs trucks, campers, etc... Chairman Tracy asked Mr. Hasbrouck if he was requesting a conditional use permit for a junkyard. Mr. Hasbrouck indicated he was not requesting a conditional use permit for a junk- yard and further indicated he was repairing cars and that he would get rid of the junk. Mr. Hasbrouck indicated some of the junk existed prior to his ownership. He is asking for truck repair and truck parking. Commissioner Hartman questioned what he was applying for and then proceeded to read Page 2 of the Building and Zoning Administrator's memorandum of 2/12/83. o o o Planning Commission Minutes February 22, 1983 Page Five Rick Breezee indicated that the area was presently zoned 1-2. There have been com- plaints with regard to the junk on Mr. Hasbrouck's property. Rick Breezee explained that Mr. Hasbrouck needed a conditional use permit if the junk was to continue. Discussion followed regarding truck terminals being allowed in an 1-2 zone. Commissioner Pearce asked if the area was rezoned to R-4, would Mr. Hasbrouck still be able to be there. Rick Breezee indicated he would then become nonconforming (truck terminal) and as such, he could not expand. Rick Breezee further indicated that if any items did not fall under the truck terminal definition, it should be removed. Discussion followed regarding what Mr. Hasbrouck has. Commissioner Hartman felt it fell underd'junkyard". Chairman Tracy agreed with Commissioner Hartman. Commissioner Tralle asked Mr. Hasbrouck how much repair work he did. Mr. Hasbrouck indicated he worked on his own trucks (2 or 3). Rick Breezee asked Mr. Hasbrouck if he worked on anyone elses vehicles and Mr. Hasbrouck indicated he only worked on his own. Rick Breezee indicated that the problem is with the junkyard, not the trucks and that a junkyard is only allowed as a conditional use, according to Code. Rick Breezee in- dicated Mr. Hasbrouck either had to get a conditional use permit or clean up the operation. Commissioner Ward indicated that a large portion of accumulation he has is junk. Commissioner Hartman indicated it would be hard to issue a conditional use permit for Mr. Hasbrouck the way it is now. Chairman Tracy indicated that if the operation was solely a truck terminal, there was no problem and further indicated he would not be in favor of granting a conditional use permit. Chairman Tracy further indicated this has now gone beyond a truck terminal. Mr. Hasbrouck indicated he felt that he should get rid of the junk. Commissioner Pearce indicated it was incompatible to have ajunkyard with the surround- ing zones. MOTION BY COMMISSIONER PEARCE, SECONDED BY COMMISSIONER HARTMAN, TO RECOMMEND TO THE CITY COUNCIL THAT A CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT TO OPERATEATRUCK, TRAILER AND MISCELLAN- EOUS SALVAGE AND REPAIR OPERATION FOR MR. FRANK HASBROUCK, 740 PROCTOR, BE DENIED. THE MOTION PASSED 7-0. Mr. Hasbrouck questioned the junk that was around the railroad and why that could be there. Chairman Tracy indicated staff was responding to that. o o o Planning Commission Minutes February 22, 1983 Page Six Commissioner Hartman asked if a time period should be attached to the motion re- garding the cleanup of the junkyard. Commissioner Oster asked if Mr. Hasbrouck got rid of the junkyard, cleans it up, would he fall under the truck terminal. Chairman Tracy indicated he ~uld. It was the general feeling of the Planning Commission that there was concern re- garding the junk. Discussion followed regarding campers and inoperable vehicles. Mr. Hasbrouck indicated he felt that a 6-month time period for him to get the junkyard cleaned up was agreeable to him. Commissioner Oster indicated his objection to the motion previously made. MOTION BY COMMISSIONER HARTMAN, SECONDED BY COMMISSIONER WARD TO STIPULATE A 6-MONTH TIME PERIOD TO CHANGE THE AREA BACK TO THE ORIGINAL CLASSIFICATION. MOTION BY COMMISSIONER HARTMAN, SECONDED BY COMMIS&IO~RWARD TO WITHDRAW THE MOTION JUST MADE. It was the feeling that to set a time limit on the cleanup of the junk was not a good precedent~ - Rick Breezee indicated to Mr. Hasbrouck that he should contact him at City Hall no later than Wednesday, March 2 to discuss a time limit. 7. Consider Zone Change - Walter Piwowar Walter Piwowar was present for;this request. Mr. Piwowar is requesting an area by Upland and Tipton to be rezoned to R-3. Chairman Tracy indicated he had a question as to how far the City sees this area for growth. Commissioner Pearce indicated he felt uncomfortable discussing this without a public hearing in rezoning the area from single family to multi-family and whether or not this was spot zoning. Commissioner Pearce indicated he felt this was a compatible use, but he would like to know what the neighbors think. ~Commissioner Pearce felt a public hearing should be held regarding this rezoning. Rick Breezee indicated that the Planning Commission should be concerned with proper land use and direction the City takes. The Planning Commission directs this without public input. Commissioner Oster questioned if the Planning Commission notifys adjacent land owners, would that be a public hearing. o o o Planning Commission Minutes February 22, 1983 Page Seven Discussion followed regarding the Planning Commission holding public hearings. Discussion followed regarding the action of the Planning Commission being made within 60 days of the request as a recommendation to the City Council. The City Planner, Zack Johnson, indicated the public hearing should be held soon. Mr. Piwowar indicated he would be unavailable in March and would like the public hearing to be held in April. Mr. Piwowar furtheriridicated that it could be a year and a half before work would be started. Chairman Tracy asked the Planning Commission if this item should be dealt with tonight. Commissioner Pearce indicated it would depend on what would happen with Item #10 on the agenda for tonight's Planning Commission meeting. MOTION BY COMMISSIONER PEARCE, SECONDED BY COMMISSIONER WILLE, TO HOLD A PUBLIC HEARING FOR MR. WALTER PIWOWAR'S REQUEST FOR A ZONE CHANGE FROM R-lc TO R-3, AN AREA BY UPLAND AND TIPTON, AT THE APRIL, 1983 PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING. THIS GHANGE_ WAS MADE AT THE REQUEST OF MR.. PIWOWAR. THE MOTION PASSED 7-0. 8. Consider Ordinance Amendment - 1008.26 Rick ~reezee indicated that the transfer of land was complicated and the City Attorney, Peter Beck was at tonight's Planning Commission meeting to clarify this for them. l'ite City At.tomey..indicated theteFmS*"l1s~ in- the Ordinance are dictated by Statute The City Attorney further_indicated this Ordinance was complicated because it in- volved two subdivision ordinances being made into one. The City Attorney explained Ordinance Amendment 1008.26. Rick Breezee indicated that if a piece of property was less than 20 acres, admin- istrative subdivision procedure would be followed. Discussion followed regarding land-locked land, lot splits, and dates to use when recording such. The City Attorney indicated that the implementation of this will be at the County Recorder's Office and further indicated the City is not the policing agency; if the County records.. it wrong, they are in violation of the Statute. Commissioner Hartman inquired if the Planning Commission was to give a recommenda- tion to the City Council. The City Attorney indicated that in the ordinance amendment, dates are included and they are dictated by Statute. o o o Planning Commission Minutes February 22, 1983 Page Eight MOTION BY COMMISSIONER HARTMAN, SECONDED BY COMMISSIONER TRALLE, TO RECOMMEND TO THE CITY COUNCIL TO ADOPT ORDINANCE AMENDMENT 1008.26 AS WRITTEN. THE MOTION PASSED 7-0. 9. Consider Ordinance Amendment 900.18 Rick Breezee indicated this has been a long, drawn-out situtation and explained the history of the Ordinance to the new Planning Commission members. Rick Breezee stressed the purpose of the ordinance. Commissioner Pearce indicated how this all came about and further indicated that 600' puts things to far away; 300' would be more appropriate. Rick Breezee indicated this whole item has become confusing because of morator- iums, changes, etc... and further indicated that setbacks would have to be followed. This is in regard to A-I areas where the 600' pertain. Discussion followed regarding the 300' amount and it was indicated it was a hypo- thetical number and it was also an amount other cities used. Rick Breezee indi- cated he was not making a recommendation. Chairman Tracy indicated that the Building and Zoning Administrator is the person who would enforce this. Zack Johnson indicated he felt that 600' was not very far and that 300' was not much space. Discussion followed regarding where a person could put a pole barn in relation to his neighbors, which is what the Ordinance pertains to and also variances were dis- cussed. Commissioner Pearce discussed long, narrow lots and felt this was geared to 10-acre farms. Commissioner Pearce felt that on big farms, this was not a problem and that 300' seems reasonable. Rick Breezee discussed metal skinned buildings and indicated that staff felt 600' was reasonable while Council felt 300' wassreasonable. Chairman Tracy indicated there were two problems - one, either too restrictive with small lots, or two, the problem it would create with the neighbors. MOTION BY COMMISSIONER PEARCE, SECONDED BY COMMISSIONER WARD, TO RECOMMEND TO THE CITY COUNCIL APPROVAL OF ORDINANCE AMENDMENT' 900.18. THE MOTION PASSED 4-3, WITH COMMISSIONER HARTMAN, COMMISSIONER WARD AND CHAIRMAN TRACY VOTING NO. Commissioner Ward questioned the word "shall" in line 3 or the ordinance. o o o Planning Commission Minutes February 22, 1983 Page Nine Discussion followed regarding enforcement of the ordinance and the issuance of building permits. Chairman Tracy called for a 10-minute recess. 10. Consider Ordinance Amendment 83-2 - Planning Commission Holding Public Hearings Chairman Tracy discussed the possibility of the Planning Commission holding public hearings. Commissioner Pearce indicated that it was, in November, the feeling of the majority of the Planning Commission to hold public hearings. Rick Breezee stated that because of the new 7-member Planning Commission, he would like their opinion. Commissioner Hartman indicated that whether the Planning Comm,ission votes yes or no, the City Council will decide anyway. Chairman Tracy indicated he felt it will be up to the City Council whether the Plan- ning Commission holds public hearings or not. Rick Breezee indicated that if through discussion tonight, the majority of the Plan- ning Commission didn't want to hold public hearings, then the City Council would look into it. The City Planner indicated that 3 years ago, the City Council wanted to hold the public hearings. The City Planner also discussed the aspects of public hearings - the thoughts would be directed to the City as a whole. Chairman Tracy indicated it is very difficult to make decisions without involving people. The City Planner discussed the aspect of people being invovled and that people who are opposed to something show up for the public hearings. Chairman Tracy indicated he was opposed to public hearings being held by the Planning Commission; wasting time talking about it now and further indicated the Planning Commission cannot switch back and forth. Chairman Tracy indicated that whatever the City Council decides, the Planning Commission must stay with that decision. Chairman Tracy indicated he felt that public hearings makes it harder to make decisions. The City Planner indicated the Planning Commission should rely on staff's opinion more heavily', Commissioner Tralle indicated that the City Council should hold public hearings and further indicated the purpose of the Planning Commission is to look at land use and leave "politics" out. o 011. o Planning Commission Minutes February 22, 1983 Page Ten Commissioner Hartman indicated that possibly the Planning Commission holding public hearings would give the City Council an "out". Commissioner Ward indicated he sees it as an advantage to the City Council if the Planning Commission held public hearings in regard to the time frame. The Planning Commission would not be reluctant; they would have to make decisions. Commissioner Pearce discussed his feelings on the neighbors being involved and how they are affected; judgements would be best on what neighbors think. Commissioner Pearce felt the City Council must base their decisions on complete facts, and further indicated recommendations to the City Council should be as complete as possible. MOTION BY COMMISSIONERWARD,SECONDED BY COMMISSIONER PEARCE, TO RECOMMEND TO THE CITY COUNCIL APPROVAL OF ORDINANCE AMENDMENT 83-2. THE MOTION PASSED 4-3, WITH COMMIS- SIONER OSTER, COMMISSIONER HARTMAN AND COMMISSIONER WILLE VOTING NO. Chairman Tracy indicated that he voted "yes" very reluctantly because he felt that the City Council would over-ride their decision. The City Attorney indicated that if the Planning Commission holds public hearings, they are obligated to listen, and also indicated the City cannot delegate decision making to the neighbors. They can listen, but if the findings dictate, the Planning Commission should go by the find~ngs, not only what the neighbors say. The form of government the City has is not "townhall". Consider Access, Roads, and Right-of-Ways Rick Breezee indicated that the concerns regarding this item comes from the City Coun- cil and the City Administrator. This is only an item for their input and he will dis- cuss this with the City Planner and the City Attorney before it is presented to the Planning Commission as a formal item. Rick Breezee indicated that the only problem is that the Building and Zoning Administrator gets exposed to it first. One concern is about land-locked property. Rick Breezee discussed private roads. Commissioner Tralle asked if the City was issuing building permits for roads that don't come up to standard. Rick Breezee indicated that building permits were issued to roads that have proper access. Private roads are allowed in the City. The City Attorney indicated that originally the City started out without private roads; this (private roads) started out with Lyle Swanson. Commissioner Tralle indicated he feels private roads are a detriment to the City and cause many hassles. Commissioner Tralle also indicated the City should take a hard look at private roads. Rick Breezee made the Planning Commission aware of the City Council's concerns. o 012. o Planning Commission Minutes February 22, 1983 Page Eleven Chairman Tracy indicated he felt certain specifics should be dealt with in re- gard to gravel roads. Rick Breezee indicated to the Planning Commission that if any of them had any major concerns, he should contact him. Discussion followed regarding land-locked roads being brought up to code with public streets. Discussion also followed regarding extremely "long" driveways and how the City would be invovled with them. Commissioner Pearce indicated he agreed that anything new built in the City, the City should own the streets and also build them. Rick Breezee read the section of the ordinance that pertains to streets. Discussion followed regarding easements. The City Attorney indicated that a person does not own the easement. The City Attorney also indicated that as long as a road abuts that easement, it will give access to that persons property. Commissioner Tralle asked Rick Breezee to find how many private roads are in the City of Elk River. Consider Sidewalks Within an Urban Area The City Planner indicated that the City Engineer should be involved with side- walks and in their design. The City Planner further indicated thought should be given with regard to trails, bikeways, etc... and indicated that the place to deal with bringing things up to code with regard to restoration, should be in the Capitol Im- provements and the cost of such should be addressed. 13. Administrator's Update B. Tentative March Agenda 1. Lion's Park Zone Change Rick Breezee indicated this zone change wilL.affect the zoning map and further indicated what the Lion's Club wants to do - change the zoning of the land they presently own in Ridgewood East 2nd, to be rezoned R-3. Discussion followed regarding density. The City Planner indicated it should be consistant with the land use map. 2. Ordinance Regarding Renewal of Conditional Use Permits Rick Breezee discussed the memo regarding conditional use permits. o o o Planning Commission Minutes February 22, 1983 Page Twelve A. Animal s Rick Breezee indicated that he is in the process of getting input from other cities regarding the keeping of livestock on small acreage. C. Seminars Rick Breezee indicated that the City of Milaca is holding seminars on con- ditional uses and variances. 14. Ad;ournment There being no further business, MOTION BY COMMISSIONER WILLE, SECONDED BY COMIS- SIONER PEARCE, THAT THE MEETING BE ADJOURNED. THE MOTION PASSED 7-0. Respectfully submitted, e Rick Breezee Building and Zoning Administrator RB : cml