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10-26-1982 PC MIN ELK RIVER PLfu~NING COMMISSION }lliETING HELD AT THE ELK RIVER PUBLIC LIBRARY OCTOBER 26, 1982 }ffi}ffiERS PRESENT: Chairman Tracy, Commissioners Pearce, Gunkel, Kreuser, and Tra11e. MEMBERS ABSENT: None STAFF PRESENT: Rick Breezee, Building and Zoning Administrator 1. Call Meeting to Order Chairman Tracy called the meeting to order at 7:30 p.m. 2. Consider Agenda for October 26, 1982 Rick Breezee indicated to the Planning Commission that Mr. Julias Wadekamper was re- questing a variance to the 600 foot requirement for accessory buildings. Rick Bre- eze further indicated that this was similar to a variance requested last month. Rick Breezee further indicated that Mr. Wadekamper brought his application to City Hall after the deadline for accepting requests and he would now like to be put on tonight's agenda. Rick Breezee indicated that the City Council will be looking at the possible reduction of the 600 foot requirement. It was by unanimous decision of the Planning Commission that Mr. Wadekamper would not be added to the agenda for the October 26, 1982 Planning Commission meeting because there was not enough preparation time for staff and also the City Council will be looking at the possible reduction of the 600 foot requirement. MOTION BY COMMISSIONER PEARCE, SECONDED BY COMMISSIONER GUNKEL TO APPROVE THE AGENDA FOR THE OCTOBER 26, 1982 PLANNING CO}fMISSION MEETING. THE MOTION PASSED 5-0. 3. Consider Minutes of September 28, 1982 Planning Commission Meeting MOTION BY COMMISSIONER PEARCE, SECONDED BY COMMISSIONER GUNKEL, TO APPROVE THE MIN- UTES OF THE SEPTEMBER 28, 1982 PLANNING COMMISSION ~rnETING. THE MOTION PASSED 5-0. 4. Consider Barthel P. U:.D. - Preliminary Plat - Public Hearing Chairman Tracy indicated that in dealing with concept, the size is difficult. Chair- man Tracy further indicated that the Planning Commission would look at the condition- al use first and the preliminary plat second. In regard to the preliminary plat, the Planning Commission should look at this step-by-step. Chairman Tracy indicated that the City Council approved 75,000 square feet as a concept. Tonight, the Planning Com- mission was looking at 105,000 square feet. Chairman Tracy further indicated the Plan- ning Commission could go \vith the 105,000 square feet as long as it is tied in \vith the,.:; five phases. Commissioner Gunkel indicated that on August 2, 1982, the Planning Commission received a map with the various phasing sizes, along with a sheet with the proposed phasing plan. Commissioner Gunkel further indicated that the Planning Commission had decided on the total size as read. Commissioner Gunkel also indicated that the remainder of Parcel A would take it up to 105,000 square feet. Commissioner Gunkel indicated that the Plan- ning Commission was looking at 75,000 square feet maximum. Planning Commission Minutes October 26, 1982 Page Two Commissioner Pearce indicated he also remembers the figure of 75,000 square feet. Commissioner Pearce further indicated it should be left at 75,000 square feet, start- ing at 55,000 square feet. Chairman Tracy asked Rick Breezee if Barthel came in at a later date, requesting to add another 30,000 square feet, could they do it. Rick Breezee indicated that if Barthel is approve with phasing for 75,000 square feet, and if they wanted another 30,000 square feet, they would have to go before the Plan- ning Commission and the City Council. Rick Breezee further indicated that the most important aspect is phasing. Rick Breezee also indicated that an additional 30,000 square feet could only be built if the economy dictated it and if the Planning Com- mission and the City Council approved it to bring the amount of square footage up to 105,000. Rick Breezee further indicated this was what was in Phase 5. Rick Breezee indicated the City recommended the phasing plan. Rick Breezee further indicated that as submitted by Barthel, it is a total of 105,000 square feet. Rick Breezee stated that it would not be built as 105,000 square feet until the phasing plan is okayed. Chairman Tracy asked Rick Breezee if the Planning Commission was dealing with 75,000 square feet or 105,00 square feet. Rick Breezee indicated that the Planning Commission is dealing with 105,000 square feet. Mr. Ken Barthel, representing Barthel, indicated that the 30,000 square feet would not be dealt with until they go to a mall center. Chairman Tracy indicated that Barthel will have to come back to the Planning Commis- sion every time this amount is changed. Rick Breezee indicated that the architectural and land review will be in the develop- er's agreement. Commissioner Pearce felt that he was uncomfortable with the additional amount and he indicated the Planning Commission doesn't have to recommend up to 105,000 square feet tonight. Commissioner Pearce questioned leaving it at 75,000 square feet. Rick Breezee indicated if that was done, Barthel would have to go through the whole process again. Chairman Tracy indicated again that Barthel could not build the final 30,000 square feet until need is demonstrated. Commissioner Pearce indicated that he thought the Planning Commission was not dealing with a conditional use permit. Commissioner Pearce felt the Planning Commission was dealing with a change. He further stated his feelings of discomfort with a change in size. Commissioner Tralle indicated he had no problems as long as the phasing plan is at- tached. Planning Commission Minutes October 26, 1982 Page Three MOTION BY COMMISSIONER TRALLE TO RECOMMEND APPROVAL OF THE CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT WITH THE PHASING PLAN AND MAP AS ATTACHED. THE MOTION WAS SECONDED BY COM}IISSIONER GUNKEL. THE MOTION PASSED 3-2, COMMISSIONER GUNKEL AND COMMISSIONER PEARCE AGAINST. Discussion followed regarding the buffering. Rick Breezee indicated that if the Plan- ning Commission takes the buffering, it could be part of the conditional use and part of the preliminary plat. Commissioner Gunkel indicated that on August 2, 1982, there was discussion regarding the steps of the conditional use permit. Commissioner Gunkel read through the stand- ards of a conditional use permit. Commissioner Gunkel indicated that in regard to the traffic situation, she was worried. Rick Breezee stated that Mr. Terry Maurer, of Consulting Engineers Diversified, had brought in a road map alignment for the PUD regarding Gates Avenue. Rick Breezee ex- plained the map to the Planning Commission. Rick Breezee further indicated this was a part of the conditional use. Commissioner Gunkel indicated she did not want 5th Street open. Commissioner Gunkel further indicated that she would like a turn-around on 8th Street. Rick Breezee indicated there was a 40 foot right-af-way for 5th Avenue and that traf- fic would be congested if 5th Avenue was to become an open road. Rick Breezee in- dicated the Planning Commission will decide if they want that link. Commissioner Pearce indicated that the conditional use permit part of the discussion was not a public hearing but that consideration of the preliminary plat was a public hearing. Chairman Tracy indicated he would like to hear from people also regarding the condi-. tional use permit. Mr. Jim LaRock of the Eastside Concerned Citizens group, indicated that the Planning Commission and people have discussed "long and hard" about keeping 8th Street closed and they don't want 5th Street open. Commissioner Gunkel indicated that the developer's agreement would go with the final plat. Rick Breezee indicated that for clarification purposes, the Planning Commission will discuss the impact of traffic, utilities they may bring up the subject of water and sewer and how it (the water) will get to the PUD. Rick Breezee further indicated there may be domestic water problems, along 1;.,ith p~rQ151ems for fire suppression pur- poses. Chairman Tracy indicated that the only problem for the conditional use permit is size. Chairman Tracy indicated the Planning Commission should talk about the six items that were outlined in the staff memo. Planning Commission Minutes October 26, 1982 Page Four Terry Maurer, C.E.D., explained the extended road to Main and the road into the PUD. Mr. Maurer further indicated that in August, 1982, the City Council ordered a feasibility study to be done. Mr. Maurer indicated that the first three ideas for' this road would have taken at least 3 properties. The 4th idea was to have Main and-Gates retain their original identity. Mr. Maurer also indicated the de- sire for yield and stop signs at 4th and Main to keep traffic moving. The City Council is leaning towards a 46 foot width along Gates and not using concrete islands until later. Discussion followed regarding Main and Gates being 30 feet wide and why the delay on the sidewalk. Discussion also was carried on where it was indicated that the name Gates would remain Gates. Rick Breezee indicated the City Council decided the route the road would take in order to remain a PUD and that the road must go through the PUD. Mr. Jim LaRock, a resident, indicated that the people d01vu on the end of the proposed new Gates have not said anything about the proposed 46 feet. Rick Breezee indicated this was discussed at an informational meeting with the resi- dents involved. Commissioner Gunkel indicated that some of the people were not happy with the width of the road but they had accepted it-they were resigned to the width.. Mr. Terry Maurer indicated that the State required a 46 foot wide road. Mr. Maurer further indicated that in order to get 4 lanes from the road, 50 or 52 feet were needed. Discussion followed regarding the 50' width of School Street. Discussion also fol- lowed regarding State Aid Roads being paid by a portion of the gasoline tax. For Cities over 5,000 in population, 100% of gasoline tax money is used. Rick Breezee indicated that the PUD road will be designed to State Aid requirements although the road will not be paid by State Aid funds; it will be assessed to property within the PUD. Discussion followed regarding the three studies that were done regarding roads. Breezee indicated that some of the studies would condemn some of the property. width of Gates and the entrance from #169 was also discussed. Rick The Discussion followed regarding a study done for the City regarding the water supply. The piping will be there to serve the PUD, the only problem that would arise would be the storage of the water. Mr. Terry Maurer, C.E.D., indicated that the PUD will be able to handle the source of the water, the distribution of the water, but the storage of the water would be a problem. Mr. Maurer further indicated the City presently is 800,000 gallons short of water storage. Planning Commission Minutes October 26, 1982 Page Five Discussion followed regarding the water flow for domestic use. Mr. Marvin Morvig, a resident, indicated that if the City did not have adequate water for fire suppression, the insurance rating of the City would fall. Mr. Gary Santwire indicated to the Planning Commission that if the water supply was already inadequate, why would they proceed with the PUD? Rick Breezee indicated that staff has looked at this also. When the question comes up, staff can stipulate that before construction, the water supply must be adequate. Commissioner Gunkel indicated that the minutes state that the water and sewer must be treated separately. Discussion followed regarding the sanitary sewer. Mr. Jim LaRock indicated he felt the developer should, if they want storm sewer, pay for it. Rick Breezee indicated the water study was agreed upon between the City and utilities as a City as a whole. Rick Breezee further indicated that water was needed whether the PUD was built or not. ~rr. Jim LaRock indicated his question as to why he had to pay for the system, since he wasn't going to use it? Mr. LaRock stated he never had a problem with water run- off, not on School Street or Holt Avenue. Mr. LaRock indicated he did not want to have to pay for water going off a parking lot. Discussion followed regarding a temporary holding pond, which was not intended for Barthel. Rick Breezee indicated that the City Council will take care of the temporary ponding at their public hearing on the conditional use. The Planning Commission does not look into cost, only at design. General discussion was carried on regarding the water study done in 1982. It was in- dicated that no steps had been taken yet regarding the study. General discussion was also carried on regarding the sanitary sewer. Rick Breezee in- dicated that it was adequate with the installation of the interceptor. General discussion was carried on regarding conditions 2 through 5 of a conditional use permit. In regard to condition #3, that was indicated as the reason for the phasing plan. General discussion followed regarding the buffer zone in relation to the impact and esthetic value. The content of the buffer will be" part of the prel~inary plat. Planning Commission Minutes October 26, 1982 Page Six Chairman Tracy indicated his concern with the density of the buffer. Discussion followed regarding the buffer being put in during Phase 1 and who will maintain the buffer. MOTION BY COMMISSIONER GUNKEL TO AMEND THE CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT MOTION TO LEAVE 5TH STREET AND 5!z STREET AS THEY ARE, PUT A TURN-AROUND AT 8TH STREET, AND THAT NO CONSTRUCTION IS TO BEGIN UNTIL THE WATER AND SEWER SYSTEM IS ADEQUATE FOR THE AREA, AND TO CONSTRUCT ALL BUFFERS IN THE FIRST PHASE OF CONSTRUCTION. THE MOTION WAS SECONDED BY COMMISSIONER KREUSER. THE MOTION PASSED 5-0. Discussion was carried on where it was indicated that if the City did not upgrade the "tvater, Barthel would be "up a creek". Mr. Dick Larson, architect for Barthel, indicated that a private land owner should not be penalized for something the City didn't do. Commissioner Pearce indicated he would vote no on the conditional use permit because of the additional footage. Chairman Tracy read through the phasing of the PUD. General discussion was carried on regarding the phasing which would become part of the developer's agreement and preliminary plat. Mr. Dick Larson indicated that the actual leasible size of the shopping center is 95,000 square feet, not 105,000 square feet. Mr. Larson indicated the mall area would not normally be added. The 105,000 square feet is with the mall included. Mr. Gary Santwire indicated that Parcel F is 50,000 square feet. If you look at the total area, it is 155,000 square feet. Mr. Murray Mills, a resident, asked what motion was before the Planning Commission. Chairman Tracy indicated the motion on the table is for a total of 105,000 square feet with phasing attached. Mr. Mills indicated his objection to this because of the size. Mr. Gary Santwire indicated his concern regarding the size of 105,000 square feet. Mr. Rob VanValkenburg indicated that he will back up a restaurant in Phase 1. Mr. VanValkenburg is concerned \nth the total size of the PUD; he indicated the same size for this proposal has not been made at anyone meet"irg since this started many months ago. Mr. VanValkenburg also indicated that a project of this size would have a det- rimental effect on the downtown. Mr. Murray Mills agreed with Mr. VanValkenburg's thoughts in regard to the dOwntO"tVTI f.'fr. f.'lills further indicated his concern for the "numbers game" being played in regard Planning Commission Minutes October 26, 1982 Page Seven to size; this clouds the credibility of the whole process. Chairman Tracy indicated he understood the confusion. Chairman Tracy further in- dicated the phasing is identical to the last meeting, 95,000 square feet for Parcel A. Chairman Tracy also indicated the Planning Commission would now start to deal with the preliminary plat. Chairman Tracy opened the public hearing. Commissioner Gunkel indicated her concern with the name of the new proposed street. Mr. Dick Larson indicated they will take a look at it, although he doesn't see how a name change can be done. This will be done at time of final plat approval. General discussion was carried on regarding the building schedule. It was estimated by the Barthel group to be about 7 months from the start. Commissioner Gunkel indicated her concern regarding some of the areas in the shopping center parking lot. Commissioner Gunkel explained to Barthel some of the ideas for change relating to the parking lot. General discussion was carried on regarding road layout and buffering. Chairman Tracy indicated that buffering density can be addressed in the developer's agreement or final plat. Chairman Tracy indicated the Planning Commission should make a strong recommendation. Rick Breezee explained the type of buffering to be used. Mr. Ken Barthel indicated that Gary Santwire had used condominiums as a buffer for his PUD. Mr. Jim LaRock indicated he thought the buffer was suppose to be a 60 foot buffer, with trees with trunks l~ to 2" thick; now discussion was for a 30 foot buffer. Mr. Dick Larson indicated that he thought the primary ,reason for the buffering was to block the site of the shopping center. Mr. Larson indicated the reason for the 30 foot buffer was because power and sewer easement going through the property on the west side. Commissioner Pearce indicated it should be in the developer's agreement visual and sound barriers. It was generally agreed to have a landscape architect design a buffer for both visual and sound barrier requirements. General discussion was carried on regarding the signs. Gary Santwire asked Commissioner Tralle if he had read the City's downto\Vll develop- ment study; Commissioner Tralle indicated that he had read it. Planning Commission Minutes October 26, 1982 Page Eight Chairman Tracy closed the public hearing. MOTION BY COMMISSIONER PEARCE, SECONDED BY COMMISSIONER KREUSER, TO ACCEPT THE PRELIMINARY PLAT .WITH MODIFICATION THAT SCREENING AS SOUND AND VISUAL BARRIERS BE A PART OF THE DEVELOPER'S AGREE~mNT AND THAT THE PLANNING COMMISSION MUST REVIEW EACH INDIVIDUAL PROJECT THAT THERE IS, k~D' AS PART OF THE DEVELOPER'S AGREEMENT THAT THE DEVELOPER.. APPLY TO MINNESOTA DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION FOR RIGHT-ON AND RIGHT-OFF ACCESS TO HIGm~AY #169 AT 5TH STREET. THE MOTION PASSED 5-0. 5. Consider Variance Request - George A. Boyd General discussion was carried on regarding the setbacks. Mr. Boyd reviewed the history of the cabinet shop. Mr. Boyd indicated that he received a building permit in 1976 for an addition to his shop. Commissioner Pearce indicated that the business has occured by allowing them to add on. Commissioner Pearce further indicated this has been violating variances all along. Commissioner Pearce indicated it would be hard to say no now. Commissioner Kreuser indicated he felt the 16 feet would not change the appearance of anything. Commissioner Kreuser further indicated the variance should be granted. Chairman Tracy indicated he felt it \vould be difficult to say "yes" to aIlS variance standards. Mr. Boyd indicated there would be no way.he could do internal change if built in a different direction. Rick Breezee discussed the individual water and sewer requirement. Rick Breezee in- dicated that both Mr. Boyd and Darrell Mack are both aware of these items. Rick Bre- ezee also discussed signage and off-street parking. MOTION BY COMMISSIONER PEARCE, SECONDED BY COMMISSIONER GUNKEL TO RECOMMEND APPROVAL OF A VARIANCE FOR MR. GEORGE A. BOYD BECAUSE IT HAD BEEN GRANTED PREVIOUSLY AND ALSO A BUILDING PERMIT WAS PREVIOUSLY GRANTED. THE MOTION PASSED 5-0. Discussion was carried on regarding putting items such as Mr. Boyd's variance request on the agenda before bigger items so these people would not have to wait around. 6. Discussion - Sign Ordinance Rick Breezee discussed the memo regarding flashing and rotating signs. Rick Breezee indicated violaters that the City was aware of, were informed of said violations. Rick Breezee indicated that Mr. Marvin Morvig, o\vner of the Elk Motel, had some questions regarding this ordinance. Mr. Morvig indicated he disagreed with the theory of flashing signs in that they were a traffic hazard. Mr. Morvig indicated he felt flood lights and bare light bulbs were more of a hazard than the flashing or rotating signs. Mr. Morvig further indicated his concern about heavy lighting on the road. Planning Commission Minutes October 26, 1982 Page Nine Rick Breezee indicated one of his considerations was flashing lights. Another con- sideration was visual aspects of signs on the public as they come into the City. Discussion followed regarding enforcement of the ordinance. Marv Morvig indicated that if his sign stays off, he wants enforcement of the ordinance city-wide. Commissioner Gunkel indicated she felt this was an area of concern and should be reviewed, changed or enforced. Rick Breezee indicated he has put in for the 1983 budget and goals to the City Council for the enforcement and the looking into -sign ordinances relating to all phases of signs. Commissioner Pearce indicated that he felt something should be done so people don't get confused with flashing signs and emergency vehicles. Commissioner Pearce also felt the tensity and speed of lights should be looked into. It was the general consensus of the Planning Commission that this item should be treated at a workshop session. 7. Adjournment There being no further business, MOTION BY COMMISSIONER PEARCE~ SECONDED BY COM}IIS- SIONER GUNKEL TO ADJOURN THE MEETING. THE MOTION PASSED 5-0. Rick Breezee Building and Zoning Administrator RB : cml